tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 29 12:33:50 2002

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Re: KLBC: chay' mu'meyvam lo'lu'?

DloraH, BG wrote:
: We'll probably need Voragh's help here showing us any canon usage.  
: > {ngIl} "to dare"
: > Is this used with 'e', or what?
: > {vIHarlaHbe'!  ta' qIp puqvetlh 'e' ngIl puq!}  "I can't believe it! 
: > That child dared to hit the emperor!"
: This is how I would probably use it.  But without canon, I wouldn't use it in

: any offical manner.

Agreed.  {ngIl} is transitive, and has been used with {'e'}:
  qagh, ro'qegh'Iwchab, targh tIq Sop 'e' lungIl Humanpu' puS. 
  Few humans dare to eat gagh, rokeg blood pie, or heart of targ. S21

though I would drop one of the {puqpu'} since it's a short sentence:

  ta' qIp 'e' ngIl puqvetlh!

FYI we also have the verb {SuD} "gamble, take a chance, take a risk" which
apparently is not transitive:

  Will you take that chance? 
  (Are you willing to take that chance? [novel]) ST6 

  HaDlu'meH, QuSlu'meH, SuDlu'meH lojmIt Da logh Hop Hut tengchaH.
   vaj loghDaq lenglaHtaH Humanpu' 
  space station Deep Space Nine is the gateway for the exploration,
   intrigue and enterprise that mark the continuation of the human
   adventure into space... DS99
: > {bup} "to quit"
: > {jIvum 'e' vIbup}  "I quit working."  Is that correct?  Does it just mean 
: > "I stopped working", or does it have a connotation more like the English
: > word 'quit': "I worked for a time, and now I've stopped for good"?
: We do have mev which would be used for "I stopped working", so I would guess 
: this would be for good; like a little kid, "I don't want to do this anymore! 
: I quit!", and stomps out of the room.
: Again, I don't recall any canon for this.

{bup} is not attested in canon.  I would use {mev} "stop, cease" which is well
attested in canon, usually as part of a SAO with {'e'}.
: > {raD} "to force"
: > Again, is this used with 'e'?
: > {vum 'e' vIraD}  "I forced him to work."
: This is how I would use it.  Canon?

{raD} is not attested in canon; but since the English glosses "force, compel"
are transitive, I agree with DloraH.  We also have the adverbial {pe'vIl}
"forcefully, by force".

: > {pegh} "to keep something secret"
: > Does this take an object, or is it more like "to be secretive"?  If it
: > is transitive, can the object be a fact?  A thing?  An action?
: > {ngoD vIpegh}  "I kept the fact a secret."
: > {ghu vIpegh}  "I kept the baby a secret."
: > {jIrop 'e' vIpegh}  "I kept it a secret that I was sick."
: > Are any of those correct?
: I know we have canon for the noun pegh, I'm not sure if we have canon for the

: verb.  The three examples you give, that's how I would use it.
This one's may be a problem.  None of the examples of {pegh} "keep something
secret, be secret, classified" I know of take an object:

  pegh De'vetlh.
  That is classified information. CK

  De' pegh vIghaj. 
  I have secret information. PK 

  ghoSmeH yIpegh.
  Stealth approach. ST5 

N.B. the following:

  pegh vIttlhegh. 
  A proverb keeps things secret. 
  ["...that is, it withholds information rather than being a ready
    source of answers. To some Klingons, this is a most insightful
    coincidence." (MO, HQ 5.1)] 
We also have the verb {buv} "classify".

Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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