Re: Klingonase vs. tlhIngan Hol

["T. J. Harrington" <t_anna_kirk@yahoo.com>]

--- willm@cstone.net wrote:
> > I stand corrected on the spelling of canon. 
> 
> No big deal. I initially misspelled it, myself,
> until someone pointed it out to 
> me.
> 
> 
> > That is
> > what I was trying to say.  Not everything,
> Officially,
> > written in the TKD is canon, according to Star
> Trek
> > faans.  Although, I was trying to make a point. 
> The
> > point is that some people will probaly use Ford's
> > language, but more often than not they will use
> > Okrand's Language. 
> 
> You missed my point. Nobody has ever used "Ford's
> Language". Not even 
> Ford has ever used Ford's language because Ford
> never had a language. 
> He is a fiction writer, not a linguist. He made up
> words and defined them. 
> Mostly, he made up nouns. He sprinkled them in with
> his English text, but 
> he never developed a language. He doesn't know how
> and he's not 
> particularly interested in learning how.
> 
> By contrast, Okrand is a linguist, excellently
> qualified to develop his own 
> language and he has done just that. tlhIngan Hol is
> a language. 
> Klinganaase is a myth; a minor tool for fiction
> writers. It is not a language 
> and never has been, and likely never will be. If it
> ever DOES become a 
> language, someone other than Ford is going to have
> to do it, since Ford 
> has no reason to do it and no inclination to do it.
> He never intended to 
> make up a language. He was just trying to add a
> little depth to his fictional 
> characters.
> 
> > & until either language is used,
> ;> completely on t. v. or in the movies, what is
> used is
> > the only part that will be considered canon.  So
> 
> I'll bet you $10 you can't write "Where's the
> bathroom?" in Klingonaase. 
> You can't say, "Don't stab me with that knife!" in
> Klingonaase. You can't 
> say, "My captain ordered me to be here at 6am," in
> Klingonaase. I can say 
> all these things and many more in tlhIngan Hol.
> 
> nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'?
> HIDuQQo'! tajvetlh yIroQ!
> mura'mo' HoDwI', javvatlh rep naDev jIpawnIS.
> 
> Klingonaase is useless for expressing ideas. You
> could not use it for 
> basic survival communication without some other
> common language to 
> drop Klingonaase words into. It is useful only to
> fans who will memorize 
> certain terms in Klingonaase and use them instead of
> the English 
> equivalent. In essence, Klingonaase is most
> charitably described as 
> "jargon". It is a set of words that certain English
> speakers understand, 
> useful only in a very limited context, and even
> then, only in English 
> sentences. It is a set of code words. It is not a
> language by ANYBODY'S 
> criterion. It is, at best, a fictional rumor of a
> language that exists 
> somewhere, even though nobody really knows how to
> speak it.
> 
> Have I made my point yet?
> 
> > what's the big deal.
> 
> Have I made my point yet?
> Yes,LOL, you would have won your bet. Klingons don't
need to know where the bathroom is. They'll just say
get out of   *^**)_+{ my way or I'll piss on your
head. they don't bother to be polite.  I don't  even
know tlinghan-hol yet, so how am I supposed to know
Klingoneese?
> charghwI'
> 
> > --- Qov <qov@direct.ca> wrote:
> > > lab charghwI':
> > > 
> > >  > The word "canon" is spelled "c-a-n-o-n" not
> > > "cannon". The former is 
> > > something > you accept as from a reliable
> authority.
> > > The latter is a gun, 
> > > typically too large
> > >  > to carry without mechanical assistance.
> Anything
> > > written or spoken by Dr.
> > >  > Marc Okrand is canon. He invented the
> language we
> > > call tlhIngan Hol.
> > >  > Anything else is not canon.
> > > 
> > > charghwI' is perfectly correct with respect to
> > > tlhIngan Hol, but it must be 
> > > noted that the KLI has no monopoly on the use of
> the
> > > word "canon."
> > > 
> > > Star Trek fans, as opposed to Klingonists, use
> > > "canon" to describe that 
> > > which has appeared on screen in one of the TV
> shows,
> > > excluding the animated 
> > > series, or one of the movies.  Star Trek books,
> > > while interesting to some 
> > > and reviled by others, are not canon Star Trek. 
> > > Information cut from 
> > > scripts, like Saavik being half Romulan, are not
> > > canon Star Trek.  The 
> > > Klingon Dictionary, while Paramount sanctioned,
> and
> > > used in movies, is not 
> > > Star Trek canon.  Only those lines of dialogue
> > > actually appearing in the 
> > > finished versions of movies are Star Trek canon.
> > > 
> > > Klingonists use "canon" to describe tlhIngan Hol
> > > published or officially 
> > > proclaimed by Marc Okrand.  TKD is tlhIngan Hol
> > > canon.  KGT and TKW are 
> > > tlhIngan Hol canon.  New words and grammar
> explained
> > > by Mark Okrand in an 
> > > interview for HolQeD is tlhIngan Hol canon.   To
> be
> > > fair to Marc, what he 
> > > scrawls in autographed books, or what he mutters
> in
> > > the restaurant at 
> > > qep'a', should probably not be considered
> tlhIngan
> > > Hol canon.  The point 
> > > is, only one person makes up new tlhIngan Hol,
> and
> > > he should be given the 
> > > opportunity to think things over, and the
> freedom to
> > > practice his own 
> > > language without his mistakes being canonized!
> > > 
> > > Someone made the point about there being two
> > > different usages of the word 
> > > canon, in an earlier post, but it was at the end
> of
> > > a long post and may 
> > > have been missed.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
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> > 
> 
> 


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