tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 28 21:37:43 2002
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RE: [KLBC] -lu' and -ghach
> I read in TKD:
>
> Daqaw you remember something/someone
> Daqawlu' something/someone remembers you
>
> Ok, I thought a while back, so now I can say:
>
> Soplu' qagh gagh is eaten
>
> Or "something/someone eats gagh". Identical to the "you remember"-example,
> I thought. But, yes, I know, -lu' indicates an indefinite subject, so that
> rules out Soplu' qagh. But I wonder, then why is Daqawlu' allowed? Doesn't
> that specify the subject as being "you"? So I can say:
>
> Soplu' it is eaten
>
> but not:
>
> Soplu' qagh the gagh is eaten
qagh is the object. qagh Soplu' - gagh is eaten.
> puqpu' lutu' they find children
lu- here is [them - it]. puqpu' is plural. So "they find children" would
be puqpu' tu'
> puqpu' lutu'lu' something/someone finds children
>
> Now the subject and object aren't reversed.
The subjects and objects do not get reversed; only the prefixes are tricky.
Look at the chart on page 33, the column under him/her/it. These are the
ones used with -lu'.
If the object is "me" (I), use vI-
"you", use Da-
"him" (he), use (null prefix)
"us" (we), use wI-
"you (pl)", use bo-
"them" (they), use lu-
puq tu' yaS - the officer finds the child
You can point to someone and say he is the officer.
puq tu'lu' - there is a child / a child is found
Who is the one that finds the child? We don't care. Our attention is on
the child; we don't care who or what made the observation. Indefinite
subject.
The prefix on the first one is [he - him] (null prefix).
The second one is [an unspecified someone - him] (still null prefix).
puqpu' tu' (chaH) - they find children
There are some people you can point to and say that they are the "they" in
the sentence.
puqpu' lutu'lu' - there are children / children are found
Who is the one that finds the children? We don't care. Our attention is on
the children; we don't care who or what made the observation. Indefinite
subject.
The prefix on the first one is [they - them] (null prefix).
The second one is [an unspecified someone - them] lu-
In your first example Daqawlu', if we add the pronoun SoH "you" to help
clearify, we get:
SoH Duqaw - he remembers you.
SoH Daqawlu' - you are remembered.
The prefix under [him/her/it] for the row [you] is Da-
> And what about, for instance,
> puqpu' Datu'lu' be?? What would that mean?
puqpu' is a "them". Under the [him/her/it] column, in the [them](they) row
you find lu-
Da- is in the [you] column.
Do you see the pattern?
> Also, a quick question about -ghach: is it ever used?? I mean, I know it's
> "weird" (but not forbidden?) to use it on verbs with no suffixes, but is
it
> ever used altogether, or do people generally avoid it because it's not
> well-understood?
It does get used once in a great while. The klingon language is verb based.
Klingons like action. If you want to use -ghach, first step back and see if
you can recast, keeping the verb as a verb; you're probably thinking too
much like english. But -ghach can be used.
DloraH, BG