tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Feb 01 14:28:06 2002

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Re: {-moH} and transitive verbs (was RE: pIqaD)

From: <>
<<Actually, I think it's pretty easy to use if you just
assume that the subject of the original transitive
verb gets displaced to the {-vaD} position when you
add {-moH}.  It's usually clear what the subject of
the un-moH'ed transitive verb is.  Adding -moH adds
a new subject to the phrase, but doesn't (it seems to
me) have any effect on the original object of the
transitive verb, so the displaced subject is the one
we have to account for.>>

Keep in mind that when you have this sort of "ditransitive" sentence, you're
not starting with one sentence and then changing it to another one.

IF the "heritage construction" is generally valid (not a special case or an
error), then it's a genuinely new rule, not something that you can derive
from TKD or anything else.

<<Of course, if the original transitive verb already has
a beneficiary with -vaD, then all bets are off:>>


<<Too bad Okrand didn't use 'e', as Qanqor once suggested,
sort of like the Japanese topic marker wa:

*vav'e' puqvaD paq nobmoH SoS
As for Father, Mother caused him to give the child a book.>>

This is also not derivable; you're using /ghaH nobmoH SoS/ and moving the
/ghaH/ into /vav'e'/.  I'm not a fan of insisting that Klingon has to have a
way to do this with one verb, but if I had to decide, I'd prefer to see it
work this way:

jabbI'ID'e' HoD QoymoH QumpIn.
The communications officer causes the captain to hear the transmission.
(Literally, "About the transmission: the communications officer causes the
captain to hear.")

However, what I'd REALLY prefer is that there be no slippery way to explain
this away -- say that Klingon just can't do it.

jabbI'ID Qoy HoD; QoymoH QumpIn.
The communications officer causes the captain to hear the transmission.
(Literally, "The captain hears the transmission; the communications officer
causes him to hear.")

Stardate 2088.5

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