tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Aug 07 14:44:46 2002

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Aw: RE: adverbials



excuse me for stepping in here.
I don't claim to have a *better* way of explaining,
but maybe a different one....

Von:     Stephan Schneider <sts@stephan-schneider.net>
> so tell me, what do /-Daq/, /-vaD/ and /-mo'/ do, speaking with terms 
> like "noun", "header" and so on?
> 
they tell you what *type* of header the noun they're
attached to is in, i.e. location/destination, or
beneficiary, or reason

> that wasn't my point. from my point of view, /rammo'/ is not a noun. 
> (also in english you wouln't say that "due to the night" is a noun.) 

this (what you put in parentheses) is completely irrelevant.
it's like saying <headers> is not a noun in english because
of the suffix -s; in Klingon the suffix -mo' is not different
from the suffix -mey in that respect (of course their semantics
differ)

> no. i still mean the naked /batlh/, /ram/ (and /naDev/). and the 
> pattern i meant is about being naked (without any suffix) in the 
> header or naked in the OVS body:
> 
> 
> /batlh/ is a noun that can occur naked in the body.
> /batlh/ is an adverbial that can occur naked in the header.
> 
this makes it look as if you're talking about the same
word, however, these are two completely different
words which just happen to look the same.

we know this, because they belong to different classes,
namely nouns (<batlh>_1) and others (<batlh>_2)

(the two nouns <pa'>_1 "room" and <pa'>_2 "area
over there" are another example of homophones)

> /naDev/ is a noun that can occur naked in the body.
> /naDev/ is a noun that can occur naked in the header.
> 
as an explicitly mentioned exception, if it was supposed
to be marked with -Daq (you cannot use a bare <naDev>
instead of <naDevvo'> for example)

> /ram/ is a noun that can occur naked in the body.
> /ram/ is a noun that can occur naked in the header.
> 
but only, when it is in a header that is not marked
by a suffix (or maybe it *is* marked by a null suffix),
namely a time stamp

> i see a pattern there. 

I hope you can see now that the pattern is very superficial
as the reasons for the second line to be true is completely
different in all three cases

> it would be easier to 
> say that /batlh/, /naDev/ and /ram/ are nouns that can occur "naked" 
> in the header.
> 
I simply disagree, but I guess what is "easier"
is a matter of personal preference

Marc Ruehlaender
aka HomDoq
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