tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 05 17:56:50 2002
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RE: adverbials
> >How do you know a subject/object isn't steeling the noun away from the
> >header area? :P
>
> there is no suffix that can to that, as far as i remember. well, if
> /naDev/ is a noun that can work in the header area, and i add a
> /-Daq/, then /-Daq/ claims that /naDev/ is working in the body area
> in order to make him work in the header area again, which wouldn't
> make much sence.
> no, i don't think there is a way to turn a header-guy into a
> body-guy. turning a body-guy into a header-guy is much easier, even
> tho there is not much grammar in klingon to to that.
> (for example, you don't even have to add a suffix in order to turn
> /batlh/ (working in the body area) into /batlh/ (working in the
> header area).)
My point is that you're not changing anything from one place to another. In
order to change FROM something, it first needs to BE that something. Before
you write a sentence the nouns are all sitting in a pile, simply waiting to
be used; they are not part of any body or header. If you need a time-stamp,
you pull out the appropriate noun from the pile and put it in the time-stamp
place. If you need a locative, you pull out the appropriate noun from the
pile and place it in the locative position. If there is an object, you pull
a noun out of the pile and put it in the object place. Then you pull a verb
out of the verb pile and put it in the verb place. Then you pull out
another noun and place it in the subject position. Those first couple nouns
that you pulled out were never assigned as a subject/object. Placing a noun
in the header area doesn't change a noun FROM a subject/object TO a
time-stamp or locative or anything else in the header area.
> > > >The noun /batlh/ can be a subject or object.
> >>
> >> >The adverbial /batlh/ can only be used as an adverbial,
> showing up before
> >> >the OVS body (in the header area).
> >>
> >> so i cannot use the noun /batlh/ in the header area, wheras i can use
> >> the noun /ram/ in the header area?
> >> tell me, you don't like to see it this way, neither, do you?
> >
> >Actually the noun /batlh/ could be in the header if it had a
> -vaD or -mo'.
>
> also the noun /ram/ can be in the header if it has a /-vaD/ or
> /-mo'/. but you said:
>
> At 14:45 Uhr -0400 27.07.2002, DloraH wrote:
> >/ram/ "night" is a noun. It can be used in the body of the sentence as a
> >subject or object, or it can show up before that (in the header
> area) used
> >as a time-stamp.
>
> so /ram/ (noun) can occur in the header area, used as a time-stamp,
> without adding a suffix (that wouldn't exist anyway).
Yes /ram/ can have a -vaD or -mo'. A time-stamp isn't the only thing it can
be used for. I didn't say it was used ONLY as a time-stamp when in the
header.
> is this wrong? if not, why this pattern isn't valid for /batlh/?
Which pattern. The noun /batlh/ can be in the header with the
suffixes -vaD, and -mo', etc. /batlh/ can't be used as a locative because
it is not a location, you can't physically be AT "honor". Likewise, how can
/batlh/ be used as a time-stamp?
> > > >(** the following requires a fixed-width font)
> >> >
> >> >wa'Hu' Qe'Daq nom yaS qIp HoD
> >> >"Yesterday in the restaurant the captain quickly hit the officer."
> >> >
> >> >|- - - h e a d e r a r e a - - -| |- - b o d y a r e a - -|
> >> >| | | |
> >> >time-stamp | locative | adverbial | | object | verb | subject |
> >> > | | | | | | |
> >> > wa'Hu' Qe'Daq nom yaS qIp HoD
> >> >
> >> > (noun) (noun) (adverbial) (noun) (verb) (noun)
> >>
> >> beautiful.
> >>
> >> so, referring to what i wrote earlier, /-Daq/ turns a body part into
> > > a header part. ok?
> >
> >In this example, Qe' was never part of this body. It was taken from the
> >pile of words (the dictionary) and placed in the locative position; and
> >because it's being used as a locative in this sentence, it get's
> >a -Daq so we know what it's doing here.
>
> you're right. i meant:
> /-Daq/ turns someone that would normally work in the body part into
> someone that has to work in the header part. i didn't mean this very
> body area and this very header area.
>
> i don't think that we add /-Daq/ in order to underline that we are
> using a noun in the header area, but we use /-Daq/ in order to use a
> noun in the header area, so, in order to turn a body-guy into a
> header-guy.
Just because he's a noun doesn't mean he's a body-guy.
> > > suffixes. for example, they select the noun from a body to have a new
> >> bodypart: /Qong yaS/ <body> -> /Qongbogh yaS/ <bodypart>. or they can
> >> turn a body into a header: /Qong yaS/ <body> -> /Qongchugh yaS/
> > > <header>.
> >
> >I wouldn't say that last one goes in the header. It has a verb and a
> >subject; the type 9 turns it into a clause that modifies the
> >main sentence.
>
> and how do you call this? i need names! :)
>
> subsentence?
clause.
DloraH, BG