tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Aug 02 09:53:38 2002

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Re: qep'a'mey vIqawtaH...

tulwI' (sts.) wrote:

>>DISvam tlhoy jIghIQta'mo' qep'a' HutDIchDaq jIDach. loQ
>>jI'IQ 'ach ret qep'a'mey vIqawchu'.
>again one stupid question: why it's not /qep'a'Daq HutDich/?

Because of an untranslated note from Marc Okrand to Sustel on the old MSN 
expert_forum newsgroup (11/96) describing the Klingon students he saw using 
his language at qep'a' wejDIch:

   qep'a' wejDIchDaq jatlhtaH tlhIngan Hol HaDwI'pu'.  ghoHtaH je.

Your question isn't stupid; other's have wondered at Okrand's use of {-Daq} 
here too.  There are two theories:

1)  {qep'a' wejDIch} is a proper noun:  i.e. not "a third conference" but 
"the Third Conference" and so functions as a unit, as if it were a 
name.  {-Daq} therefore has to go at the end of the unit:  {<<qep'a' 
wejDIch>>Daq} "at 'The Third Conference'".

2) {-Daq} goes at the end of any noun + modifier (quality, ordinal number, 
etc.) phrase, not on the noun.  We have another example from TKD (p.50):

   If a Type 5 noun suffix is used (section 3.3.5), it follows the verb,
   which, when used to modify the noun in this way, can have no other
   suffix except the rover {-qu'} "emphatic". The Type 5 noun suffix
   follows {-qu'} ... {veng tInqu'Daq} "in the very big city."

Notice you say {veng tInqu'Daq}, not *{vengDaq tInqu'} as you might expect.

>>qep'a' wejDIch vIqaw je. Dun. maghomqa' 'ej malaw'choH.
>>juppu' chu' vIqIH. Okrand vIqIH je! ravDaq maba'taHvIS
>what's the difference between /ghom/ and /qIH/?

{ghom}  "meet, encounter, assemble, rendezvous"

{qIH"  "meet (for the first time)"

charghwI' asked Okrand about these two verbs.  He reported to the List that

    In an interview with Okrand, he conveyed to me another difference.
    The more general verb [ghom] works both as {qaghom} "I meet you"
    and {maghom} "we meet". The verb {qIH} always has a direct object.
    I can say {qaqIH} "I meet you (for the first time)," or I can say
    {maqIHchuq} "We meet each other for the first time," but I'm not
    using the verb properly if I ever say *{maqIH} "We meet for the
    first time." That's just not how the verb is used.

We only have canon for {ghom}:

   tachDaq maghom.
   We will meet in the cocktail lounge. TKD

   bInajtaHvIS qeylIS Daghomjaj
   May you encounter Kahless in your dreams! PK

   tlhIngan 'avwI' lughom
   They meet a Klingon guard. PK

   rut yIHmey ghom Hoch
   Everyone encounters tribbles occasionally. TKW

   ngoch luchermeH 'ej wo' San luwuqmeH pa' ghom tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'pu'
   ... where the leaders of the Klingon High Council meet to determine policy
   and decide upon the fate of the Empire. S25

   tera' vatlh DISpoH cha'maH loS bong QongmeH qItI'nga Duj tI'ang ghompu'
    DIvI' 'ejDo' 'entepray'
   A sleeper ship of this [K'Tinga] class, the T'Ong, was encountered in
    the 24th century by the USS Enterprise. S15

(Personally, I would have used {qIH} in the S15 example, but SkyBox didn't 
hire me to translate their cards!)

Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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