tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Oct 04 12:50:26 2001

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Re: KLBC: vaj



Jiri:
> > > > > >   jup yIjatlh vaj yI'el
> > > > > >   speak friend and enter

charghwI':
> This looks more like, "Say, 'friend' thus enter."

Yup. It was by saying 'friend' that the gate opened. In fact, these were
instructions on how to get in.

> There are a couple problems with it. Remember that {vaj} is an adverb,
> not a conjunction.

The original text was sparsely punctuated... I'm quite happy for it to be
two separate sentences, with an omitted semicolon.

...
> If you mean to issue a command for someone to say the word {jup}, then
> this is a rare instance in which the word order doesn't matter. {yIjatlh
> jup} and {jup yIjatlh} mean exactly the same thing.

That's one meaning.

> If you instead mean "Speak, friend, and enter," with "friend" being an
> appositional reference to the person being addressed, then it should be
> {yIjatlh, jupwI', 'ej ghIq yI'el.}

And that's the other meaning.

Without punctuation, you can't tell the two meanings apart - which makes
for three pages of text while Gandalf works it out.

> > > but one imperative does not logically lead to another.

> > Point; I'd have to say ((yIjatlh jup vaj Da'ellaH)) for it to make
> > sense, and that wouldn't be true to the original at all.

> You'd also be misusing an adverb as if it were a conjunction.

Again, if I'm already leaving off either commas or quotes around jup, it's
just as conceivable to leave off a semicolon. 'Tis an inscription made in
the Elder days...

Certainly Gandalf's translation would include them:
  yIjatlh, jup; vaj yI'el
and, later:
  yIjatlh <<jup>>; vaj yI'el


Jiri
-- 
Jiri Baum <[email protected]>           http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jirib
  MAT LinuxPLC project --- http://mat.sf.net --- Machine Automation Tools
    tlhIngan Hol jatlhlaHchugh ghollI' Hov leng ngoDHommey'e' not yISuD
Never bet on Star Trek trivia if your opponent speaks Klingon. --Kung Foole


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