tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed May 02 06:43:48 2001

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Re: vIlIH'egh bochaw'chugh

> In a message dated 4/30/2001 9:15:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
>> {ghel} is to {tlhob} as {jatlh} is to {ja'}. The direct object of
>> {tlhob} is typically a person, while the direct object of {ghel} is
>> typically a question, so if you use the prefix shortcut, {qaghelpu'}
>> becomes {SoHvaD
>>
>
> I, too, can use help here.  I have been using {ghel}, {jang}, {jatlh} and
> {jach} as intransitive-only verbs.  Thus, my sentences have ended up as:
> jIghel, jIjatlh <<qaS nuq?>>  bIjang, bIjatlh  <<qaS pagh.>>
>
> Intransitive obviously means "no object," precluding the idea of "direct
> object."
>
> I would appreciate a full discussion of this topic.
>
> peHruS

Your use of these verbs intransitively is most commonly correct because 
most commonly, especially {ja'} and {jatlh} are used in direct quotations, 
and the quotation is NOT the direct object of these verbs. The quotation 
and the verb of speech are grammatically independent of each other.

Meanwhile, all four of these verbs CAN have direct objects. We know from 
Okrand that {jatlh} can have as its direct object the nouns:

Hol
SoQ
qID

Other nouns describing some unit of speech would work as the direct object 
of {jatlh}, but generally, this is true when you are NOT using {jatlh} as 
the verb of speech in a direct quotation. When I say {tlhIngan Hol 
vIjatlh}, I am not using direct quotation. I'm saying, "I speak the Klingon 
language." I'm not saying, "I said, 'Klingon language'." If I wanted to say 
the latter, I'd say either {jIjatlh tlhIngan Hol,} or {tlhIngan Hol 
jIjatlh.}

Is that point clear? You use the "no direct object" prefix when you are 
using {jatlh} to be the verb of speech in a direct quotation. You can use a 
prefix that involves a direct object if that direct object is one of the 
above mentioned nouns or some functional equivalent such that the noun 
represents the pile of words that you say, rather than literally quotes 
them.

Similarly, {ja'} can be used in direct quotation, typically intransitively 
because, once again, the direct quotation is not the direct object of 
{ja'}. In direct quotation, the direct quotation and the verb of speech are 
grammatically independent of one another and either can preceed the other.

Realize that {ja'} is slightly different because the direct object of {ja'} 
is the person being addressed. This doesn't conflict with the role of being 
a verb of speech, so I could be grammatically correct and say:

qaja' HItlha'.

or

HItlha' qaja'.

"I told you, 'Follow me!'"

The verb of speech and the direct quotation are grammatically independent 
AND {ja'} has a second person singular direct object. You are the person I 
am telling.

Just to make things more interesting, realize that the prefix shortcut can 
allow you to, when the person being addressed is the first or second 
person, use the prefix shortcut on {jatlh}, so I could also say:

qajatlh HItlha'.

or

HItlha' qajatlh.

Note that in this case, the second person singular is not really the direct 
object. It is the indirect object. These are the functional equivalent of 
the more grammatically explicit:

SoHvaD jIjatlh HItlha'.

Meanwhile, I can say:

Qanqor vIja' HItlha'.

But I cannot be correct if I were to say:

*Qanqor vIjatlh HItlha'.*

This is grammatically incorrect because no person is the direct object of 
{jatlh}, and the prefix trick doesn't work if the direct object is 3rd 
person.

As for {ghel} and {tlhob}, Okrand's most recent discussion of this in the 
HolQeD interview and a small bit of discussion off the record makes it 
clear that while he did use {tlhob} as a verb of speech in his published 
Klingon jokes on one of the audio tapes, he now regrets that somewhat. He 
really prefers that these two verbs NOT be used as verbs of speech. For the 
most part, "as far as Maltz has told us up to this point", the only two 
verbs to use for direct quotation are {ja'} and {jatlh}.

The jokes also predate the existance of the verb {ghel} and Okrand was 
pretty clear that he would have preferred to have used {ghel} in the jokes, 
since he expressed that he wants {ghel} to be the question equivalent of 
{jatlh}. The direct object of {ghel} would be the noun for the unit of 
speech being asked (which I find a little awkward, since we don't have a 
noun for "question"). Because there is no noun for "question", I find it 
natural to use {ghel} intransitively most of the time with the direct 
object simply implied that if you are {ghel}ing, there must be a question 
involved, similar to the way that {jISop} implies food, though it doesn't 
mention it. The verb gives the information about the kind of speech being 
offered. Typical use would be:

novvaD jIghel. jIjatlh 'Iv SoH?

Similarly, {tlhob} is the question equivalent of {ja'}. The direct object 
of {tlhob} is the person being asked the question.

nov vItlhob. vIja' 'Iv SoH?

For all of these, we might punctuate them, typically using << and >> to 
replace quotation marks, but this is the romanized Klingon writing system, 
anyway, just phonetically notating spoken Klingon, so punctuation is 
somewhat optional and variable. For example, the last example might be 
written a little more clearly as:

nov vItlhob. vIja' <<'Iv SoH?>>

I hope this is clearly presented.

charghwI' 'utlh

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