tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Mar 24 22:10:00 2001
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Re: KLBC: Perfect Sangha
ja' Robert Bracey <[email protected]>:
>...At the rate I'm going at the
>moment (this is a but pre-emptive) I think I will be comfortable with the
>grammar long before I have enough vocab to read or write comfortably
>(without constant reference to a dictionary).
qaghuHnISmoH. bImotlhchugh, bIQaghbej. nom pab Daghojchu' 'e' DapIHba'.
bImuj 'e' vIHar. pab Daghojta' 'e' DaQubDI', tugh bImer'egh. pIj
nIbechmoH QaghHommeylIjmey. chorurchugh, ghaytan bIqonmeH yap mu'tay'lIj
bIlaDmeH mu'ghom DapoQbe'pa'. chorurchugh, bIlaDlaHchu'DI', ghaytan
bIqeqnIStaHqu' puppa' pab SovlIj.
Unless you are *extremely* gifted or extraordinarily focused, I'm certain
that you'll be quite surprised for a very long time at how often your
comfort is disturbed by simple grammatical errors. If you're like me,
you'll probably be able to remember enough vocabulary to write before you
can give up a dictionary when reading, but you'll need much more practice
before you can consistently produce grammatically correct writing.
rambe' mu'tay'. rambe' pab. 'ach potlhchu' qeq'e'. po'choHmeH vay',
laDnIS 'ej qonnIS 'ej ja'chuqnIS ghaH latlhpu' je.
Neither vocabulary nor grammar are unimportant, but it is *practice* -- in
reading, writing, and conversation -- which produces fluency.
>...BUT give us beginners a
>break, we all come to Klingon with some sort of grand project in mind (mine
>is to do with writing a history of the Earth in Klingon).
ghuy'cha'. jInmol'a' qelpa' taghwI', taghnIS rIntaH. tlhetlh SovDaj.
qatlh mughnISqu' nuv, yappa' laHDaj? le''a' tlhIngan Hol? rur'a' France
Hol ghojwI'? rur'a' 'eSpanHol ghojwI'?
Grand projects can wait until a beginner has finished "beginning". What
*is* it about Klingon that makes people think they can just jump in and
start translating Sun Tzu before they've even learned enough of the
language to carry on a conversation? Do people learning French or Spanish
exhibit the same malady?
>I think we also
>realise pretty quickly that this is a far off dream, but its nice to have a
>dream.
wIch wuvchugh najwI', vIt tlhojDI', pum. ngabmo' wIch, tlhIngan Hol
tIvlaHbe'; rut 'e' wuq vempu'wI'. poH lI' lulo'Ha'. vaj nom najwI'
vIvemmoH 'e' vImaS.
Having seen dozens of such dreams evaporate when faced by the truth of
reality, often resulting in the frustrated dreamer giving up on Klingon
entirely, I am not convinced that having them is "nice". Until they
realize how far off the dream is, they are often wasting both their time
and ours as they pour their energies into producing flawed translations
instead of honing their abilities.
>A few Questions
>
>1)Couldn't find a word for example, so I used 'oSwI' as thing which
>represents. Have I missed a more obvious choice?
{chovnatlh} "specimen" isn't necessarily obvious, but it's the word that
typically gets used on the list when English would use "example". {'oSwI'}
is reasonable given its literal meaning, but it is also listed separately
in the dictionary as a term meaning "emissary".
>2)Have I used -lu' correctly? I meant to express the idea of being understood.
You said {QIjnISmeH *monastic community yajlu'}. The English you gave was
"Monastic community still needs to be explained for someone to understand."
{-lu'} seems to be used appropriately, but I think you placed {-meH} on the
wrong verb. Correcting that will change the structure of the sentence
enough that I can't tell you with any real confidence that {-lu'} is
correct.
>3)I used a rhetorical question as I wasn't sure how to say "others have
>wondered why I said that". I came up with 'e' vIja 'e' tlhoblu'. This seems
>to be close but doesn't really express the why. Any help?
*I* don't think it seems all that close. First, because {ja'} as a verb of
saying usually has the person being told as its object, {...'e' vIja'} is
an extremely odd construction. Second, using {tlhob} this way makes me
think that someone is requesting that you say something; this is where the
"why" you want is lost. Finally, there's also the pronoun {net} which is
typically used instead of {'e'} when the subject of the verb following it
is indefinite -- {net V} is generally preferable to {'e' Vlu'}.
To express the idea "why" when you're not really asking a question, it's
probably best to choose a non-question word to do it. In this case, I'd
suggest {meq} "reason":
{meqwIj luyajbe'law' latlhpu'} "Others seem not to understand my reason."
{SIv} "wonder" suggests itself here, but it is a troublesome word. Okrand
once wrote that it can mean "wonder if", using it in a phrase like
{tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISIv} "I wonder if you speak Klingon." But we
don't know how, or even if, it can be used to express "wonder about", as in
a hypothetical ?{meqwIj luSIv} "they wonder about my reason."
-- ghunchu'wI' 'utlh