tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jan 03 11:48:04 2001
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RE: KLBC: Qu'wIj
[Much discussion on translating "King Edward III" into Klingon clipped.]
De'vID (I think) asked:
> Not sure if there's any canon to show {(number)DIch} being applied to
> a noun phrase or multiple nouns. (Voragh?)
Here's what I could find:
pIpyuS pach HochDIch DaSoppu'
You've eaten the last pipius claw. (KGT p.177)
Where {HochDIch} is a stylistic alternative for {Qav}.
qImlaq yaS wa'DIch
First Officer K'mlak KGT
Where {yaS wa'DIch} is a title.
veng wa'DIch Sep
First City region KGT
Where {veng wa'DIch} is a proper name.
{toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'DIch} in:
tlhIngan juHqo'Daq tlhIng yoSDaq 'oH toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'DIch'e'
1st Construction Site: The Kling District, Klingon Home World. (KBoP)
{wa'DIch tlhIngan Dujmey} - most likely a typo by SkyBox (not Okrand) for
{tlhIngan Dujmey wa'DIch} - in:
wa'DIch tlhIngan Dujmey luleghlu'pu'bogh rur qItI'nga Duj tera' vatlh
DISpoH cha'maH wej HochHom lo'lu'taH
Similar in configuration to the first Klingon vessels encountered, the
K'Tinga-class remained in use for most of the 23rd century. (S15)
SarriS:
: of apposition. Both Edward and voDleH are references to the same person. In
: English, this is the equivalent of saying, "Edward, the Empiror" rather than
: saying "Emperor Edward". So, your question is then, does this mean "Edward,
: the Emperor number 3" or does it mean "Edward the Emperor, number 3"? To me,
: it makes sense as the former. For the latter, I'd say {Edward wej voDleH}.
: That then means, "Edward number three, the Emperor", or more likely "Edward
: the Third, the Emperor". Note that Henry the Fifth is {HenrI' vagh}, not
: {HenrI' ta' wej}, so that example doesn't answer this question.
:
: Again, we need to figure out the grammatical relationship between the name
: and the title. I'm suggesting this is probably apposition, so the number
: needs to accompany the name, not the title, assuming that the two nouns are
: not more tightly linked in grammar than simple apposition.
If I've followed the arguments... I agree with SarrIS that the preferred
translation should be {Edward wej voDleH} or "Edward III, emperor" on the model
of {HenrI' vagh} Henry V. {Edward voDleH wej} *might* be construed to mean
Edward is king number 3 in a system of multiple reigning monarchs. (This is
not so far-fetched. Earth's Late Roman Empire was split up into two sections,
East and West, each ruled by an emperor; later, this practice was even expanded
into four sections, each with its own emperor - though IIRC one of them was, in
theory at least, in charge or primus inter pares "first among equals". This
title was later assumed by the bishop of Rome, i.e. the pope.) {Edward voDleH
wejDIch} would then be "Edward, the third emperor" - i.e. the third emperor,
who happened to be named Edward.
Again, context, punctuation, or an explanatory footnote will help clear up any
confusion. A more practical solution is just to call him either Edward III
{Edward wej} or King Edward {Edward voDleH} and avoid the problem of his full
title until we have more information. I wish we knew what the official name
and title of Kahless' clone, the "current" figurehead Klingon emperor, is. Is
he Emperor Kahless II?
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons