tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 02 11:03:48 2001

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RE: KLBC: Qu'wIj

To: 	[email protected]
Subject: 	RE: KLBC:  Qu'wIj


jatlh naQSej:

 Qu'wIj vIDel 'e' vInIDqa'
ruv yaSHompu' loHwI' cha'Dich jIH.  "England"Daq "Cymru"Daq je Huch Hevbe'
HochHom ruv yaSpu' (HochHom ruv yaSpu' DIlbe'lu').  motlh ruv yaSpu' Dabe'
nuvpu'vam, 'ach latlh Qu'mey ghaj.

maj. You could also use {gheS} ("take on the duties of") rather than {Da}
("behave like") in the last sentence.


ruv yaSHom 'chaH pong.

If you want to say "They are called {ruv yaSHom}", you could use {chaHvaD
<ruv yaSHom> luponglu'} ("For them, they are called {ruv yaSHom}").
You could also use {<ruv yaSHom> 'oH pongchaj'e'} ("Their name is {ruv
yaSHom}").
You can also consider using a different word, instead of {pong}, since their
*names* are probably something like "Robert" or "Joe". Maybe {per} (the noun
or verb "label") or {patlh} (the noun "rank") would work, or {Qu'chaj pong}
("the name of their duty").


qaStaHvIS wa' DIS bIghHa'Daq HeSwIpu' ngeHlaH.  chut Sovbogh qeSwI' ghajnIS.


maj. See my comment below regarding this first sentence.


DIS wa'SaD wejvatlh javmaH wa', ruv yaSHom Qu' cher wejlogh voDleH "Edward".
tera'ngan ghaH, 'ach tlhIngan rur.

This is good. The only problem I see here is translating the title "King
Edward III". {wejlogh} means "three times", as in {wejlogh jIghIQ} ("I took
a vacation three times"), so this doesn't work here.  You could use {-DIch},
which makes ordinal numbers. For example, {wa'DIch} would be "first". This
word goes after the thing you are counting. {Edward wejDIch} would be "the
third Edward".
Klingon titles go after the name; for example, {torgh 'aj} ("Admiral
Torgh"). So you could say {Edward voDleH wejDIch} ("the third Emperor
Edward"). Alternatively, we have an interesting example in KGT. There,
"Henry V" is translated as {HenrI' vagh}, so you could also say {Edward
voDleH wej} ("Emperor Edward #3").


tIv'eghmeH, wa'maHvatlh DIS noH tagh.

Two comments here: First, "enjoy oneself" is an English idiom, and as such,
it doesn't mean the same thing in Klingon.  The English phrase really means
"have a good time".  To express this concept in Klingon, you might say
{tIvmeH} ("in order that he enjoy things (in general),") or {QuchmeH} ("in
order to be happy,").
Second, if anything, {wa'maHvatlh} would mean "ten-hundred" [sic]. For "one
hundred", you just want {wa'vatlh}.


may'mey Dun Qapchu'. may'Daq SuvDI', butlh ghaj.  "France" Qaw' 'ej Hej.

maj. When I see the word {Qaw'} ("destroy"), I think that whatever was
destroyed is gone. You might want to use a different word here (maybe
{chargh}?) - something to imply that the country was conquered, but not
physically destroyed.


juHmeychaj cheghDI, "England"Daq QIH 'ej HejwI'ghach 'e' taH mangghomDaj.

This sentence construction seems a little cumbersome and focuses on nouns.
Rather than saying "they continued destruction and robbery", you could say
"They continuously destroyed and robbed". This would be:

{juHmeychaj cheghDI' mangghomDaj,} "When his army returned to their homes,"
{"England"Daq QIHtaH 'ej HejtaH.} "they were (still) damaging and robbing in
England"

You might also consider using the verb suffix {-qa'}, to indicate that when
they got back to England, they started looting & pillaging again.


vaj, Hoch SepDaq, mangpu' SeHmeH, ruv yaSHompu' Sugh.

maj.


vatlhmey ben joHwI'pu' chaH ruv yaSHompu'.

Technically, {vatlh} is a number forming word, and not a noun per se, so you
probably can't add noun-suffixes to it.  Since Klingons prefer precision,
rather than approximations, it might be best to just hazard a guess here.
For example, you could say {cha'vatlh ben...} ("Two hundred years ago..."),
even if you're not sure whether it was exactly 200 years or not.

Also, {joH} is a noun meaning "lord".  It looks like you saw words such as
{toy'wI'} and {qeSwI'}, such as in your next sentence, and assumed that
{joHwI'} was a similar verb+{-wI'} word. {joH} is a noun unto itself. When
you see {joHwI'}, it means "my lord".  In this case, {-wI'} is the noun
suffix meaning "my".

Finally, when we want to say that one noun is another noun, as in "Justices
were lords", the last noun in the Klingon sentence needs a {-'e'} suffix.
For example:
{joHpu' chaH ruv yaSHompu''e'} "The justices were lords"


toywI'pu'chaj chaH qeSwI'pu'chaj.

Again, you need the noun suffix {-'e'} on the second noun here:
{toy'wI'pu'chaj chaH qeSwI'pu'chaj'e'} "Their advisors were their servents"


wa' qeSwI'pu' ghaj Hoch ruv yaSHom.

You don't need to use the plural suffix {-pu'}.  "They have one advisors"
sounds as strange in Klingon as it does in English.


loHwI' 'oH pongchaj.

Same comments as before - you need the {-'e'} suffix, and you might want to
say that their *rank* or *duty name* was "clerk".


motlh joH Du'a' loHtaH loHwI'. che' vagh jav ghap ruv yaSHompu'.  vaj
bo'DIjDaq vagh loHwI' jav loHwI' ghap  tu'lu'.

majQa'. We don't see the word {bo'DIj} too frequently. You have used
uncommon vocabulary well here.


rut Huch yojmeyvaD  tlhaSchuq. DIS wa'SaD Hutvatlh cha'maH vagh, wa' loHwI'
ghaj Hoch bo'DIj 'e' ra' quprIp, 'ej chut SovnIS loHwI'.

maj.


qasDI' wan'I'vam, joHpu' chaHbe' HochHom yaSHompu'.  

I think you want to say {qaSpu'DI' wanI'vam...} here. After the 1825
parliament order was *finished*, the magistrates were not lords. Therefore,
you want the verb suffix {-pu'} to indicate completion.
Again, you'll also want to use {-'e'}.


nuv motlh chaH.
'ach ghurDI' HeSmey, ghur ruv yaSHompu', vaj boQpu' Suq loHwIpu'.  cha'Dich
luHev, ghiq latlh boQ luSuq.  bo'DIj loHwI' DIpong.  

maj.


bo'DIJ loHwI'pu' ra' loHwI' cha'DIch 'ej ruv yaSHompu' ghoj

Just a minor problem here - you want the verb {ghojmoH} here, rather than
{ghoj}. {ghojmoH} means "teach", or literally "cause to learn".


 'ej meqba'Daq bIj mIwmeyDaq je qeSwI' Da.

maj.


meqba'Daq qaSnISbogh Hochmey wIwuq.  Hochmey wuqpu'bogh ruv yaSHompu' wIqon.


Your use of {Hochmey} is interesting.  I might translate it as "entireties"
or "everythings" here, implying separate "everythings". It works, at least
for me. Remember that if you do make it plural, the verb prefixes have to
reflect that. You want the prefix {DI-}, rather than {wI-}, because the
object is plural.



 This is what I'm trying to say:  

My job.  I try again to describe my job.  I am a deputy clerk to the
justices (i.e lesser justice officers' second administrator).  In England
and Wales most judges do not receive money {most judges are not paid - not
sure if you can use {DIl} to mean "pay", rather than "pay for").  

You are paying for the judges' services (in the same way that you would pay
for a lawyer or a housekeeper). {DIl} should work okay here.


Usually these people do not act as judges, but have other jobs.  They are
called justices.  They can send criminals to prison for up to a year (I
think that actually reads as if it takes them a year to make their minds
up??).  They need an adviser who knows the law. 

When I read the sentence {qaStaHvIS wa' DIS bIghHa'Daq HeSwI'pu' ngeHlaH}, I
understood it as "For one year, they can send criminals to jail". In other
words, the main verb {ngeHlaH} ("they are able to send them") happens over
one year, and after a year they can no longer send them.

To make it closer to your meaning, you could try using {ratlhmoHlaH} ("they
can make them remain") instead of {ngeHlaH} ("they can send them"). Or,
perhaps try something like:
{qaStaHvIS wa' DIS bIghHa'Daq ratlh HeSwI'pu' 'e' luraDlaH} "They can force
that the criminals remain in jail for one year."



Edward III established the office of JP in 1361.  He was Terran, but
resembled a Klingon.  He started the Hundred Years War, won great battles,
fought with courage, ravaged and pillaged France for the fun of it.  When
his army returned to their homes, they continued destruction and robbery in
England.  So, in each County, to control the soldiers, he installed
justices.

Hundreds of years ago justices were lords.  The advisers were their
servants.  Every judge had one adviser.  They were called clerks.  Usually
the clerk was the steward of the lord's estate.  Five or six justices
presided.  So in court there were five or six clerks.  Sometimes they fought
each other for the fees.  In 1825 Parliament ordered that each court would
have one Clerk, and the Clerk had to be a lawyer. After that most
magistrates were not lords.  They were ordinary people.  (I tried {ram} but
it seemed a bit unkind - not sure about {motlh} though).

{motlh} is fine for this use. In one of the Klingon audio tapes, we have an
example:
{tera'ngan motlhbe' SoH} "You are an unusual terran"
So {nuv motlh} would be "a normal person" or "an ordinary person".


But as crimes increased, judges increased so Clerks obtained helpers.  They
obtained a deputy, then other helpers.  They are called court clerks.  The
deputy commands the court clerks and trains the justices and acts as an
adviser in trials and sentencing.  We decide what has to happen in a trial.
We record the decisions of justices.  

QInlIjmo', qun vIghoj. majQa'!


- taD

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