tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Apr 24 13:37:24 2001
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Re: Reply to SarrIS *(ghunchu'wI')
- From: Will Martin <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Reply to SarrIS *(ghunchu'wI')
- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:37:06 -0400
vIt DajIrtaH. cha' tetlh pIm DIqel. chIch *Okrand*vaD wa' tetlh Danob.
tetlhvam DaghItlhbe'. De'wI'vaD mu'mey Daqon. tetlhvam ghItlh De'wI'.
tetlhvam legh ghunchu'wI'. *Okrand*vaD tetlhvam chonob. tetlhvam qel
ghunchu'wI' jIH je. *Okrand*vaD tetlhvam vIlabmeH, De'wI'Daq vIqonnIS.
law'qu'mo' mu'meylIj Qatlh Qu'vam. *Okrand* vItlhob. jIjatlh <<peHruS tetlh
tInqu' DaneH'a'?>> SIbI' mujang. <<ghobe'. vIleghnISbe'.>>
PeHruS, you continue to distort the truth. We are talking about two
different word lists. You intentionally gave one list intending it to go to
Okrand. You didn't hand write that list. You entered it into a computer.
The computer printed this list. ghunchu'wI' saw this list. You gave me this
list to give to Okrand. This is the list that ghunchu'wI' and I have been
discussing.
In order for me to send that list to Okrand, I would have had to type it in
to my computer. This was difficult because your list was so big. I asked
Okrand if he wanted your very large list and he immediately replied that he
did not need to see it.
ngoDvam DabuSHa'meH tetlh cha'DIch DaqeltaH. ghaytan tetlh cha'DIch
leghpu'mo' *Okrand*, tetlh wa'DIch legh not neH 'ej tetlhlIj Segh yajmeH,
leSSov Suqpu'.
In order that you ignore this fact, you keep talking about a second word
list. Likely, Okrand never wanted to see the first word list because he had
already seen the second one and already knew what to expect.
charghwI'
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:15:58 EDT
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In a message dated 4/12/2001 11:13:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
>> ja' peHruS:
>> > I did not offer the extra pages to MO. He saw me writing and asked me
about
>> > them. When I said that I had already submitted my wished-for words to
>> > you but was making a list of other concepts I hoped we could cover
>> > someday in the
>> > future, MO commanded me to give him the pages, indicating he would do
>> > what he could...
>>
>> vIt DajIrmoH. qatlh ngoD DabuSHa'chu'? tetlh tInqu' Daqonpu'.
>> qay'bejbe' ta'vam neH; rut mu'mey DIHutlhbogh vIngu' je jIH. 'ach
>> Daqay'moH -- tetlh laDmeH Okrand'e' 'oH Damuch jay'. Data'pu'DI' latlh
>> DaqonchoHlaw'. bIle' 'e' DaQublaw'.
>>
>> That's an interesting spin, but you entirely missed the point.
>> The fact is that you compiled that enormous list of personally-
>> desired words in the first place. By itself, that's no big deal;
>> I occasionally write down words which aren't in the lexicon myself.
>> But you sure tried to turn it into a big deal -- you handed your
>> list off to someone in hopes that it would be forwarded on to Marc
>> Okrand. And it seems that as soon as you had done that, you
>> immediately began compiling another list. It's as if you consider
>> yourself somehow special.
>>
>> mu' tetlh ngaSbogh nav vIlegh. tetlhlIj 'oHlaw'. 'utbe' HochHom;
>> Doghlaw' neH 'op. rut wot DaneH; rut DIp DaneH. qech neH Datlhob'a'?
>> ghobe' -- reH mu''e' DapoQ. rut tlhIngan Hol mu' Dachuplaw' SoH jay'.
>> ngoDvetlh vItu'DI' SIbI' navmey vIroQ 'ej vIbuSHa'. QIntlheghvam
>> vIlaDpa', tetlhvetlh vIqawqa'pu'be'.
>>
>> I assume the list I saw in passing was yours. It was riddled with
>> words for ideas we can already express, and contained a few that
>> seemed totally pointless. And it was always specific *words* being
>> requested -- sometimes a noun, sometimes a verb -- instead of just
>> concepts that you wanted to be able to talk about. It looked like
>> there were even suggested Klingon spellings for some of the words!
>> When I saw that, I immediately dropped and disregarded the papers,
>> and indeed had forgotten about them until now.
>>
>> DaH bIH vIlIjqa'. vIjanglu'chugh, tlhIngan Hol neH vIqIm.
>>
>>
>
> Dear ghunchu'wI':
>
> tetlhwIj legh MO qoj lo' MO 'e' vItulmo', latlh vay'vaD mu'mey tetlhwIj
> vInobpu'be'. jIba'taHvIS qechmey vIqon, ngugh Qu'wIj vIja' 'e' ghel MO.
> jaSHa' bIta' 'e' DachID je SoH. mu'meyvam vImughlaHchu'be'mo' jIH'e',
> mu'tetlh ngeb mojmo' tetlhwIj, mura': HInob! mu'mey DIHev 'e' wItulbogh
> tetlh tambe' tetlhwIj not 'e' vIQub. tlhob MO 'e' vIpIHbe'. mu'mey
> tetlhwIj mu'mey Hutlhlaw'mo' tlhIngan Hol, vaj tetlhvam chu'
> laDqanglaw'mo' MO jIQuch. mu'mey tetlh teH jangchu'pa' MO, pagh
> jangtaHvIS, pagh jangpu'DI', pagh vItlhob jIH. tetlh tIn
> laDqanglaw'mo' ghaH, tera'ngan Hol mu'meywIj mughbogh tlhIngan Hol, chaq
> mu'mey 'ogh ghaH 'e' vIQub; vaj loQ jItul.
>
> I did not pass my list to anyone with the hope MO would even see it, let
> alone use it. I sat writing down ideas and MO himself asked what I was
> doing. You admit you have written such notes to yourself. When I
> revealed that these were words I still could not translate well, i.e., a
> totally unofficial wish list, HE said to give them to him. At no time
> were these to replace any official wish list; I never expected the
> command in the first place. I was happy to let MO see any list of words
> for which I still desired Klingon equivalents. I made NO request that
> he fulfill my list at all, before, as part of, or after he worked on the
> Official Wish List. Of course, due to the fact that he was willing to
> look at this large compilation, I was happy to think that he MIGHT
> eventually give us some new words that would cover the words on my
> unofficial pages.
>
> qechlIj Da'uchlaH: mu' chu' vItul 'ach mu'vetlh qech DamughlaH 'e'
> Damaq. qay'be'. lI'be'chu' 'op mu'meywIj? Holmaj DatIch je? tetlhwIj
> 'oH tetlhvam'e' 'e' vIQub. lo' latlhpu' 'e' vIpIHbe'. DopDaq pab 'ay'
> vIghItlhpu'. 'ach tera'ngan Hol pab 'ay' rurbe'chugh tlhIngan Hol pab
> 'ay', jISaHbe'. jabbI'ID ghomvam ghotpu' law' mIw vIpab je jIH;
> vImughlaw'meH DaH mu'tay'vo' mu'mey vIlo'. (Sojqach 'oS grocery story,
> jIHvaD vIchup). tetlhwIj lo' nuv pIm 'e' vIpIHbe'mo', tlhobDI' MO,
> qechmeywIj vIngabmoHbe'. SIbI' navmey vInob neH.
>
> You obviously can hold your opinion: You claim that we can already
> express the ideas for which I "wished" we had a specific word.
> Pointless words? Do you say the same thing about our native tongue? I
> thought this was MY notes, not a list somebody else would use. Yes, I
> wrote the proposed part of speech out beside my English word; this does
> not force the Klingon word to equate to that part of speech. I followed
> the example of many persons on the KLI listserv; I put down translations
> of the ideas as I might express them with the vocabulary we already have
> (for example, grocery store = Sojqach). Due to the fact that I never
> expected anyone else to use these pages, I did not take time to
> eliminate my "possible translations" when MO requested the pages. I
> merely immediately handed them to him.
>
> chaq qechmey DImughlaHbogh jIHvaD Danobqang SoH. jIHvaD tambogh
> mIwmeylIj tIQIj! mu'mey vImughlaHbe'bogh jIHvaD tImugh. HIQaH neH!
> HIHIvtaHQo'! maj. mu'meywIj lI'be'chu' tIngu'! teHchugh
> lI'be'taHghachchaj, vaj matay'DI' DIwoD jay'.
>
> Maybe you are willing to give me translations for ideas (words) I have
> trouble handling. Explain your way of dealing with these words.
> Translate for me the words you claim you can express but I seem to have
> trouble with. Just help me. Don't keep attacking me. Okay. Identify
> my pointless words. If it is true they are pointless, we can throw them
> away together.
>
> peHruS