tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 31 11:03:45 2000
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RE: Grammar Highlight Each Day (gheD)
peHruS:
> The grammar point today is: When the subject of a sentence
> is plural and the object of the same sentence is singular,
> Klingon must "adjust" the verb. In this case, we add the verb
> prefix lu-, which means "they do the verb to him, her, it."
>
> nov luqIp nganpu' = The inhabitants hit the alien.
>
> nov = alien, foreigner (noun)
> lu- = they --> him, her, it (verb pronominal prefix)
> qIp = hits (verb)
> ngan = inhabitant (noun)
Holtej:
: This is a good example of why a "lesson of the day" is not a good idea. I'm
: sure that, in sequence, this description of prefixes might make sense. But
: if you look at in by itself, the description that {lu-} is used when the
: subject is plural and the object is singular is absolutely incorrect, and
: could be misleading and confusing.
You're right, this is not true for all plural subjects (we, you [pl.]), but all
peHruS needs to do is say that this example true of the third person. E.g.:
"When the third person subject of a sentence is plural (i.e. "they")..."
or
"In the third person, we add the verb prefix {lu-}, which means "they
do something to him/her/it."
both of which were implied in his glossary:
> lu- = they --> him, her, it (verb pronominal prefix)
but he really should state it explicitly in the explanation so as not to
confuse the novice from the get-go. You have to lay the building blocks of the
grammar carefully as it is very difficult to correct bad habits or
misunderstandings later on.
: Also, if you didn't see yesterday's lesson, you wouldn't know what all those
: {-pu'}'s are about. I'm not saying I think the lessons are bad, or are a
: bad idea, I'm just saying that the mailing list might not be the best
: presentation mode.
Well, grammar lessons have to be cumulative and build on the previous points.
He could have added a line to his glossary though, as Okrand usually does in
his startrek.klingon posts:
-pu' = plural noun suffix for beings capable of language (i.e. people)
As peHruS is discovering, it's very hard to write lessons for complete
beginners who don't know any grammar (Klingon and, sometimes, English) and
compose examples that only contain grammar and vocabulary introduced in the
previous lessons -- especially at the very beginning.
Perhaps he could mark the subject with "[DRAFT]". An alternative would be to
create a private sub-list, say of all past Grammarians, for the draft lessons
before posting to the main list.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons