tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Oct 04 11:56:35 2000
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Re: Dangerous pun?
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: Dangerous pun?
- Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:57:50 -0700
lab ter'eS
> ghItlh Qov:
>
> (Stupid AOL ate your message before I'd finished reading it, so I can't
reply > in detail to your post.)
qaS. I guess that explains why your mail is formatted with extremely long
lines. If it's not possible for you to select "80 character lines" perhaps
you could insert some carriage returns, to make it possible to read without
scrolling baaaaaaack and forrrrth. (I read posts on the website at
/tlhIngan-Hol/current)
> I disagree with you on several points:
>
> 1. I know {tuq} is also defined as "tribe", but in practice it's main
meaning > has become "house". In fact, {tuqnIgh} is defined as "member of a
_house_" in > HQ, nothing about "tribe". Besides, just because it also
means "tribe"
> doesn't change that it also means "house".
Fair enough. When I use it I think of the concept, not of any particular
English word, and when I translate it I usually translate it "line" a la
John M. Ford. But you seem to have more familiarity with English-speaking
Klingon fandom than I, so if you say that's the most common translation.
I'll buy that.
> 2. It is true that, strictly speaking, {gh} is not the same sound as /g/,
> but, for the average fan of Klingon, they are indistinguishable in use.
It is a completely different sound. Yes, beginners mangle it, but they're
as likely to say "gack" or "gaH" as "gag" for qagh.
> 3. It doesn't matter that {nIgh} is not intentionally part of the N-word.
The > mere sound coincidence is problem enough.
There is no sound coincidence, unless it is BADLY mispronounced. I could
badly mispronounce English "night" or "nigh" too. That doesn't make it an
offense for me to speak of a dirty night.
> Perception is reality; it doesn't matter if MO didn't intend to cause
> offense (and I firmly believe he did not). The aide to the Mayor of
> Washington, D.C. was fired last year for using the word "niggardly" to
> describe Federal support for his programs.
I heard of that case, and I believe your issue with tuqnIgh is closely
comparable. I, however, think that the firing of the aid for using that
word was completely uncalled for. It to me was comparable to a bureaucrat
cancelling a New Years Eve performance by the Barenaked Ladies, on the
grounds that it was not suitable family entertainment. (It happened: the
Barenaked Ladies is a rather inoffensive male band, probably best known for
their song, "If I Had A Million Dollars"). If someone is going to take
offense at all words containing the letters "nig" then it the problem of
the person taking offense, and not the duty of their society to protect
them against it.
> The statement made no reference to blacks, and the word isn't
etymologically
> connected to the N-word or even spelled like it, but offense was taken, and
> paid the price.
You, evidently, believe that he was rightly punished for it. It was
probably the politically correct thing for the mayor to fire that aide, it
being easier to fire someone than to give an entire city an etymology
lesson, but I don't believe it was required in any way. If it is true that
the public use of words like "niggard" or "niggle" is an offense, then the
word tuqnIgh is tarred with the same brush -- if I'm allowed to say that.
Yes, I am aware that terrible injustices were inflicted on people captured
in West Africa and brought to North America. I am aware that those people
were never compensated for their work or pain and that many of their
descendents face hardships today both because of the poverty in which
slavery left their families and because of prejudice against them. I know
that the corruption of a Spanish word that poorly describes the
pigmentation of such people's skin was is now a racial epithet beginning
with N.
However, non-offensive words meaning and sounding like black, in various
languages, permeate our language and did before English-speakers were ever
aware that there were dark-skinned people on the planet. I refuse to stop
using such words just because they have sounds or spellings in common with
that epithet.
If I did, I might have to stay silent about a fellow Canadian's Olympic
silver medal, lest the sound of the word "kayak" offend Jewish Klingonists.
Maybe I should complain about the signs around here pointing out the roads
that give "dike access" in Delta, in case they offend lesbians.
Condemn persecution. Condemn the use of hurtful words intended to demean
anyone undeservedly. But allow people to go on speaking their languages.
> It's been my experience that non-U.S. Americans don't really get the
nuances > of U.S. American racial politics.
I agree heartily with that. Canadian racial politics are quite different.
> As a thought experiment, to see if you can get an idea of the kind of
> offense I think this word can cause, imagine that MO's next group of
> "Maltz words" includes the terms {qa'nuq} 'a minor appendage to a more
> important object',
That one would actually convulse me in laughter. Canadians love to be made
fun of by Americans. (Canadian to American commedien: What do Americans
really think of Canada? Reply: We don't). But the bizarre Canadian psyche
aside, you had some more serious examples:
> {natsIy'} 'the ideal form of government', and
> {say'tlhon} 'a final solution to a nagging problem'.
If these were words, or if /tuqnIgh/ meant "privileged slave," "token,"
"sycophant" or the like, I'd say that was in poor taste, and agree with
ter'eS. But if /natsIy'/ meant "mass hysteria", or something unrelated to
Nazis, like "be underwater" no problem. And look out, now someone is going
to suggest that Marc Okrand considers Zyklon B to be a good nostril cleaner.
> Would it matter that he didn't do it on purpose?
Yeah, it would. It would matter that the reference were ubtle enough that
someone could create the ord and not notice.
> At any rate, it's not really my call. I've pointed out what I see as a >
potential problem. Now it's up to Lawrence (I guess) to decide if it's
worth > passing on to MO, and up to MO to decide if he wants to do anything
about it.
Yep. Thanks for pointing it out.
Qov