tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Mar 14 15:35:09 2000

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Re: KLBC: Hov Ha'DIbaH je lut (revision)

On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:01:14 EST [email protected] wrote:
> jatlh jIH:
> 
> > HovDaq leghnIS qatlh 'oH chaw'be'
> >  Qunpu' 'e' SIv.
> 
> I, of course, meant:
> 
> HovDaq leghtaHvIS qatlh 'oH chaw'be' Qunpu' 'e' SIv.
> 
> I guess I shouldn't proofread at one in the morning.
 
Unfortunately, Okrand has specifically said that one does 
NOT use a question as the object of the verb {SIv}. In my 
one HolQeD interview (or the conversation around it) Okrand 
smiled gleefully while he repeatedly said, "I often wonder 
about the verb {SIv}." He was undecided at that time, 
though he has given us one canon example I can't remember 
perfectly right now, though I know ....

Wait a minute. Let me check...

Okay, quoting Okrand on the verb {SIv}:

"All four words asked about ({tul} 'hope', {Qub} 'think', 
{Sov} 'know', and {SIv} 'wonder') can be used in the 
construction {S 'e' V}, where S is a sentence, {'e'} is the 
pronoun ('that') which refers to a previous topic (in this 
case S), and V is one of the verbs listed above (as well as 
some others). If the sentence (S) is {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} 
'you speak Klingon', it's OK to say ... {tlhIngan Hol 
Dajatlh 'e' vISIv} 'I wonder if you speak Klingon'. (The 
fourth example is weird from an English translation point 
of view, but it falls right in line in Klingon. If the 
English translation matched the pattern of the other three 
sentences, it would be 'I wonder that you speak Klingon'. 
In English, this means something like 'I'm surprised that 
you speak Klingon' or 'I don't understand how it can be 
that you speak Klingon', but this is not what the Klingon 
sentence means. The Klingon sentence means something more 
like 'I am curious about whether you speak Klingon'. The 
clumsiness here is the English, not the Klingon.)"

So, how do you say what you wanted to say? Well, first, I 
have to be sure I understand what you wanted to say, and 
I'm not really sure. You labeled your message KLBC, but you 
didn't provide an English translation, which, as a KLBC 
submission, you are supposed to provide. I won't guess. 
I'll just let you know that you aren't there yet and leave 
the above quote to explain why.

And I don't usually respond to KLBC messages, but yours 
seemed to beg for an authorative quote on why {SIv} can't 
be used like this.

> -Eodrakken

charghwI'

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