tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Mar 08 20:51:58 2000

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Re: KLBC: DaHjaj mu'mey:

Likely pagh will have already answered this quite well, but 
I'm home, sick, looking at posts offline and this is 
something I think I can clarify.

On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:05:48 -0700 tuvel 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ja' pagh:
> 
> >
> > >> vutpa' yIjaHQo'. pa' betleHlIj'e' pIDbogh ghISDen Datu'.
> >
> > jang tuv'el. jatlh:
> >
> > > OK, the second sentence here freaked me out.
> > > This is what I came up with:
> >
> > > "Don't go to the galley. You'll find the scales that coat
> > > your bat'telh there."
> >
> > Very close. The <-'e'> marks <betleH> as the head noun of the relative
> > clause, making it:
> >
> > Don't go to the galley! You'll find your betleH, which is covered in scales.
> 
> OK, I see that.  I thought the realtive clause usually preceeded the noun it
> modified?  I would have written that as: pa' pIDbogh ghISDen betleHlIj'e'
> Datu'.  Would you mind explaining how you came up with that construction, and
> how you would figure it out if someone else wrote it?  I'm not questioning that
> it's correct, but I don't quite get it.

Think of a relative clause as if it were a whole sentence 
unto itself with {-bogh} added to the verb. Either the 
subject or the object of that sentence is the "head noun". 
That head noun's position in the relative clause is normal 
for a normal sentence. It preceeds the verb if it is the 
direct object and it follows the verb if it is the subject.
 
If there is only one noun in the relative clause, that is 
the head noun. If there are two nouns (both an explicit 
subject and an explicit object), then you can mark the head 
noun with {-'e'}, or you can just let people guess, 
figuring that context will make clear which is the head 
noun.

Now, ignore everything in the relative clause except for 
the head noun. Pretend that the head noun just ate the rest 
of the relative clause. Now, this head noun is a noun in 
the main clause. Typically, it is the subject or the object 
of the main clause, though we know from two canon examples 
that it can also be a locative in the main sentence (though 
I don't recommend it -- it gets ugly and vague very easily 
if you stretch things around like this).

Place this head noun in the main clause exacly like any 
noun would be placed according to its function in the 
sentence. Now, fill in the rest of the relative clause just 
like it was originally.

You may be confusing relative clauses with purpose clauses. 
A verb with {-meH} always preceeds the noun or verb it 
modifies. Relative clauses do not have any such rule.

I hope this helps.
 
> - tuv'el
> 
> 
> 

charghwI'

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