tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jun 16 07:31:50 2000
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RE: Raise your betleH to the stars.....
>... tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq jIlengpu' "I've traveled all over the place"
>
>[Again, the travelling occurs at these places, and this is a ghoS-like verb,
>unlike pep.]
If there was just -Daq I would accept that.
'evDaq jIlengpu' - "In the northwest, I have traveled"
But throwing -vo' in there I think changes that.
tIngvo' 'evDaq - you're going "from" tIng "to" 'ev.
>But if I say {Qanqor lurghDaq vIghoS}, then I'm talking about going in a
>direction which is related to both of us. Additionally, I'm not saying
>anything different from {QanqorDaq vIghoS}. Remember that I don't ever have
>to actually REACH Krankor for that statement to be true. All I have to do is
>approach him / travel along the path that is related to him. What is {lurgh}
>adding here?
You keep using ghoS. Sure, with ghoS, lurgh doesn't do very much.
>Meanwhile, to get back to the original question, I do not believe that
>"raise"/pep is a verb that behaves like {ghoS}. I do not believe that it can
>have a target as its direct object. The direct object is the thing one is
>raising. So, if you use a locative with that verb, then the locative is not
>a direct object. It is just a locative. As such, it tells you the location
>where the action of the verb occurs.
>
>Add to it that the verb already implies deixis, since you can't raise
>something unless you have a gravitational field to oppose or something we
>can agree on as a floor or ground or equivalent to move the object away
>from. pep = bIngvo' DungDaq vay' vIHmoHlu'. Talking about direction is
>uncharacteristically redundant with this verb. I suspect that the original
>poster of this question chooses to add "toward the stars" to imply distance
>and enthusiasm and not direction. "Raise your betleHmey REALLY, REALLY
>HIGH!" For that, {pepchu'} would be better than getting all tangled up in
>{Hovmey lurghDaq}.
I agree that to lift something there is also gravity to imply which way is
up. But you don't have to lift something straight up. You can lift
something and be holding it out to your side.
DungDaq betleH pep - the betleH is raised in the area above the subject.
retlhDaq betleH pep - the betleH is raised in the area next to the subject.
tlhopDaq betleH pep - the betleH is raised in the area in front of the subject.
As you say, the action is in the area of the locative; above the person,
next to the person, in front of the person.
HovDaq betleH pep - the betleH is not in or on the star.
Hov lurghDaq betleH pep - lurgh is an area of space just like Dung and
tlhop. Dung is always above, tlhop is always in front; lurgh is that area
that is located in relation to the n1.
Now in reference to stars I can see your arguement. The stars are
everywhere, and your really saying lift it high; so yes, pepchu' would be
good for this.
How about:
SorDaq taj yI'uch - I'm telling you to be AT/IN the tree and hold the knife.
DungDaq taj yI'uch - hold the knife above.
tlhopDaq taj yI'uch - hold the knife in front.
Sor lurghDaq taj yI'uch - hold the knife towards the tree.
DloraH