tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jul 05 01:05:50 2000
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RE: Deixis and direction
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Anderson [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 8:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Deixis and direction
>
>
> ja'pu' SuStel:
> > Doesn't the pouring happen in the room where I'm standing while pouring?
>
> ja' charghwI':
> >Much as it happens in the city where the room was built and the
> planet where
> >the city exists and the star system where the planet spins...
> You can always
> >zoom out, but the point I'm making is that the pouring happens
> in the cup. I
> >don't think it is really possible to argue that the action of the pouring
> >DOESN'T happen in the cup.
>
> *I* will argue exactly that. Viewed in an extremely narrow scope, pouring
> happens in the space between containers. Seen through a larger scope,
> pouring happens in the location where the pitcher and pourer and cup all
> happen to be. In medium scope, I think the most natural view is that the
> pouring happens wherever the subject of the sentence is. The cup is not
> the defining feature of the location.
I'll simply point out that in declaring this, you have exactly as much
authority as I do, which is none at all. The simple truth is, the location
of the action of the verb {qang} occurs wherever the Klingon language thinks
it occurs. Maybe the cup. Maybe the pitcher. Maybe the space between. Maybe
the location of the subject, though that seems unlikely. Neither you nor I
actually can dictate this, regardless of our preferences.
> > It does happen in a larger context as well, but
> >there is no locative context which excludes the cup in which one could
> >validly argue the pouring occurs. The location of the pouring always
> >includes the cup. Pouring without the cup in this case is merely
> spilling or
> >leaking.
>
> I can easily imagine pouring a gallon of milk out a second-story window
> into a dishpan waiting on the ground, satisfying the semantic requirements
> of the Klingon verb {qang}.
Actually, I suspect that would have more to do with {lIch} than {qang}.
> I feel justified in claiming that in
> this case
> the location of the pouring is where *I* am, not where the dishpan is.
Possibly yes, possibly no. Only Maltz knows for sure, and I doubt he'll tell
us any time soon.
> I see that SuStel gave a similar example, and that he has
> answered the rest
> of the argument in much the same way I would have, so I'll stop here.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI' 'utlh
charghwI' 'utlh