tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 07 18:49:30 2000

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RE: KLBC: peD bIQtIqvo' loD



jatlh Kevin Brake:
> peD bIQtIqvo' loD

This title doesn't work very well. To start with, <peD> is a verb meaning
"snow", so <peD bIQtIq> means "the river snows", which is nonsense.

> This is verse one of a poem I am currently translating, 
> The Man From Snowy River. The english version is

I really appreciate your enthusiasm, but this is not a good way to start
learning Klingon. You should start by writing (not translating) simple
sentences. If you really, really want to translate something, try some very
simple prose. Poetry is difficult for very skilled speakers to translate,
and trying to do it as a beginner will only frustrate you.

That said, you seem to do pretty well with most of the grammar here, but you
sometimes try to stretch it way beyond where it will comfortably go. You're
trying to translate very literally every word and phrase and sentence, but
since Klingon and English are structurally very different, that just isn't
going to work.

> There was movement at the station for 
>    the woed had passed around,
> That the colt from old Regret had got away,
> and had joined the wild bush horses, 
>    he was worth a thousand pound,
> So all the cracks had gathered to the fray.


> payghach qanvo' nargh *colt*Daj 
> 'ej ngem *horse*mey tayHa' ghompu'.
> = from old regret, his horse escape 
> and wild forest horses it met.

We do have a word for a Klingon animal that is close enough to a horse that
you could probably use it: <Sargh>. A colt would then be a <Sargh Qup>
(specifically a <loD Sargh Qup>, but that's probably not a necessary
detail). Also, <tayHa'> is not a good way to describe "wild" animals. It
would probably be perfect for wild people, but "civilized" is generally not
a word that can be applied to horses, domesticated or not. We know from
somewhere in KGT (I think) that <tlhab> can mean "wild" when applied to
animals, and it's perfect here.

I assume "Old Regret" (or just "Regret") is the name of a ranch or some such
place. This does not come across at all in the Klingon text, giving the
impression that the colt had somehow escaped from regretting something,
which makes no sense. In addition, you've got <-ghach> on a "naked" verb
stem, which is something you should not do. <payghach> doesn't mean
"regret"; it means something vaguely like "regretation". It's probably best
to just avoid <-ghach> altogether until you are more familiar with the
language. Without knowing exactly what you're talking about (I've not read
the poem, and this bit doesn't have enough context to tell me), I can't
suggest an alternative.

> vIHmo' De'vam, Du'a'Daq vIHghach tu'lu.
> = Because this information moved, at the 
> big farm, movement could be found.

A couple of typos: <Du''a'Daq> and <tu'lu'>.

"information moving" really just doesn't work. It sounds quite stilted in
the back translation, and <vIH> - "move, be in motion" just does not work
for the spread of information. <vIH> works for physical objects in motion,
and could probably be used to describe a message on its virtual way from
place to place, but to notion of information milling about on the farm
stretches it beyond the breaking point. For "the word was out", I would
really expect something involving <net Sov>.

You've also used <-ghach> again on a naked verb stem, which is bad. This
sort of thing could be easily phrased as <Du''a'Daq vIHlu' net tu'>. There
also seems to be some confusion between the "station" and the "farm". Beyond
that, though, what does "there was movement at the station" mean anyway?
Does it mean that something was physically moving? Probably, but that is
incidental to the real meaning of the statement. What it means is that there
was activity - people coming and going, wondering what was about, finding
out about the colt, setting off to find him, etc. The English poem expresses
this with a bit of a metaphor, couting on the reader to fill in the details
with his imagination. A literal translation of that sentence is virtually
guaranteed *NOT* to evoke the same imagination in another language,
especially from a completely foreign culture.

> wa'Sad Huch qan lo'laHmo'
> *colt*, qaDDaq ghom lIghwI' po'
> = because the colt was worth one thousand old money, all the 
> skllied riders gathered at the challenge.

<wa'SaD Huch qan> (note typo) is really "A thousand old monies", whatever
that means, and not a specific amount. If you want "a thousand pounds", you
have three choices. First, you could just substitute a Klingon monetary unit
- a <DeQ> or a <DarSeq> - one for one with "pound" and not worry about it.
This is fine if a <DeQ> or a <DarSeq> is (very) roughly equivalent to a
pound. You could also pull out a calculator and make an approximate
conversion, substituting (for example), forty <DeQmey> for a thousand
pounds. Unfortunately, we don't really know what these units are worth
relative to anything, let alone our current monetary system, so that won't
work. All we know is that a <DarSeq> is something the average Klingon would
be likely to have more than one of. Finally, you could explain to the reader
what a pound is and then just use the word as is or maybe transliterate it
(e.g. <pawnID>). I'd probably go with <DarSeqmey> equivalent to pounds and
risk looking foolish if <wa'SaD DarSeqmey> turns out to be wildly more or
less than the worth of a colt.

Also, <lo'laH> is a verb meaning "be valuable", as in "a valuable tool for
the job" and such. It does *not* mean "be worth [$X]". Therefore the reader
would have to interpret your sentence as <lo'> plus <-laH>, meaning "Because
the colt can use a thousand pounds", which is not what you want. To say
something is worth X in Klingon, you have to get a little creative. I would
probably phrase it like this:

Doch DIllu'meH, ngevwI'vaD X DarSeq nob je'wI'.

Not the sort of thing you can squeeze into your poem, but there may be
alternatives.

<qaDDaq> really doesn't make sense either. A <qaD> is not generally a
physical location, and it's certainly not in this case. Unlike most English
prepostitions, the Klingon suffix <-Daq> can *only* be applied to physical
locations. If they gathered anywhere, they gathered at the station, or the
farm, or somewhere like that. You're also missing any sense of "all" in the
Klingon, which could be added with a <Hoch> somewhere.


> Hoch poH qaStaHjaj may'lIj
nuqjatlh?


I'm not trying to discourage you, but this material is currently beyond your
ability. It's probably beyond mine as well - I don't often translate poetry,
and I probably never will. Instead of trying to translate the poem, write a
little story. You can follow the basic plot of the poem if you want, but
simplify it. Something on the order of "A young horse escaped. Some guy came
and recaptured it. And then he met the farmer's daughter . . ."  Make it
maybe a dozen simple sentences. It doesn't have to be "See Spot run!", but
it shouldn't be a Tolstoy novel either. That will be a good exercise in
learning Klingon, and might be fun as well.


pagh
Beginners' Grammarian

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