tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 03 22:04:56 2000

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Re: Online Klingon Language Course

bIghoHqu' 'ej bIvID 'ej bIqej net Sov.  SoQchu' yab
mInDu'lIj DaH 'e' vImaq
jay'.  Hol chu' ghojchoHlu'DI' Hol pab potlh law' mu'tay'
potlh puS qen
jabbI'ID ghomvamDaq vIlaDpu'.  latlh:  qaStaHvIS poH nI'
maqtaH DuSaQ'a'
ghojmoHwI'pu' noy', jatlh:  Hol pab yIghojchu', ghIq pabvam
mu'tlheghmeyDaq
mu'tay' mu'mey chu' tItam.

Alan Anderson wrote:

> >Thank you for your idea that you and others will be pointing out
> >corrections to
> >the lessons.  I welcome the help.  After all, the goal is for beginners
> >to learn
> >correctly.
>
> If that is the goal, then you should not post them before they've been
> checked for accuracy by someone else.  Putting out unproofed material
> does not advance the cause of learning correctly.

::::: mu'mey lo'chu'be'bogh ghotvo' nargh wabvam!  qen wa'
mu'tlhegh neHDaq
wej mu'mey lo'chu'be' ghunchu'wI'.  vaj mu'meyvam qechna'
yajbe' ghaH 'e'
vIghov.  mu' {ratlh} 'oH wa' mu'vetlh'e'.  {HIvje'Daq ratlh
bIQ puS} rurbogh
mu'tlhegh qonpu'.  lugh mu'tlheghvam pab qech je; 'ach Daq
pIm DanchoH bIQ
'oS qechvam.  chuv bIQ puS 'oS ghunchu'wI' 'e' nID ghaH. 
cha' wotmeyvam
qechna' yajbe'mo' ghunchu'wI', bong mu' lughbe' wIv ghaH.

>
>
> >...I have seen David Barron's postal
> >course,
> >but I have not seen it online.
>
> /kli/projects.html#postcourse describes it and points
> to the online lessons at /kli/PDFs.html which have
> been made available for almost a year.  As each lesson is revised, the
> file is added to that page.  This information was posted to the mailing
> list when the online files were created, and the "what's new" link from
> the KLI's home page lists them.  I've pointed out their existence to a
> number of people recently who were asking about ways to learn Klingon
> online.

:::::::::: De'wI' patDaq tlhIngan Hol ghojlu'meH
*lesson*mey'e' HIjlu'bogh
jIHvaD De''e' DaSovmoHmo' qatlho'.

The fact that you were not aware of them makes me even more
concerned

> about your setting yourself up as an "official Klingon language tutor".
>
> >Since I have been a foreign language instructor as well as foreign
> >language
> >student for over 36 years, with nearly 100% success, teaching by a
> >deductive
> >reasoning method, I do feel qualified to write up a course.
>
> You've obviously been around long enough to know about the existence of
> the Beginners' Grammarian position.  Why are you disregarding it?  Have
> you discussed wanting to post these "grammar points" to the list with
> pagh?  With d'Armond?  With Lawrence?  Your arrogant presumption that a
> series of posts like this would be generally useful bothers me almost as
> much as the fact that you "feel qualified" even after having been shown
> to be one hundred percent wrong in your understanding of many points of
> Klingon grammar.
>

taghwI'pu'vaD ghaHbogh pab po'wI' vIbuSHa'be'bej jay'.  pIm
Qu'Daj.  ghelDI'
vay', jangnIS ghaH 'ej QIjnIS.  DaHjaj mu' much Holtej nIteb
'e' wIv ghaH 'e'
vISovbe'.  qep'a' loSDIchDaq maja'chuq Lawrence jIH je. 
tlhIngan Hol pab paq
vIqon 'ej ngev SSI vIneHmo' maja'chuqta'.  paq Seghvam qon
'angghal neH je
ghaH.  ngugh tu'lu'taH David Barron Postal Course.  David
Barron
wIquvHa'moHbe'bej.  taghwI'pu' DIQaH wIneHchu'.  DubuQmo'
jIQuchbe' 'ach
jIvangtaH.  Quchlaw' taghwI'pu' puS.  vaj Qu'vam chavnISlu'.

>
> >When I first saw that ghunchu'wI' challenged the necessity of such a
> >course, I
> >immediately wondered if ghunchu'wI' also feels that d'Armand's KTOW is
> >unnecessary, as ghunchu'wI' is an accomplished Klingon speaker and
> >probably knows
> >(virtually) all the words KTOW presents.  But I have not found any such
> >message.
>
> [Before I respond to this, allow me to point out an example of why I am
> so concerned about you in particular acting as a teacher of Klingon.  I
> constantly observe an alarming lack of attention to detail in what you
> present:  you misspelled d'Armond, and you twice referred to "KTOW",
> whatever that's supposed to mean.  The daily notes posted by Holtej are
> labeled "Klingon WOTD".]
>
> It's always useful to learn vocabulary.  The words generally don't build
> on knowledge of other words, so there's no particular problem with order
> of presentation.  Someone who arrives after having missed the first few,
> or even the first few hundred, is not at a disadvantage.
>
> On the other hand, someone who comes in to discover the fourth lesson of
> an online language course will have a hard time making use of it without
> having seen the first three.  And someone who arrives close to the middle
> of the course will be completely lost.  Only those who are around for the
> whole thing will get the benefit of it.  *That* is why I was questioning
> how useful a "scheduled" grammar course would be.
>

::::::::::::::::::::::: QaQqu' qechlIj.  meqvammo' webpage
lIngqang veSqa'
tuq beq.  vaj ngeb pagh 'ay'.

>
> I also notice that you have completely ignored my specific questions and
> instead posted a scathing rant accusing me of being "insanely jealous".
> I find that strangely amusing and pathetic at the same time.

QInvam vIqonpu'be'.  De'wI'wIj lo' latlh nuv, pemla'. 
juHDaq jIHtaHbe'vIS
qonpu' ghaH.  ngeHpa' ghaH vIlaDmeH DuH vIghajbe'.

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