tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 01 23:58:53 2000

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Re: Online Klingon Language Course




[email protected] wrote:
> 
> jatlh De'vID:
> >When you "own" something you "possess" it.  But when you "possess"
> >something you don't necessarily "own" it.  ...

Actually you can "own" something without "possessing" it.  My mistake.
The words "own" and "possess" overlap, but each has meanings not shared
by the other.

> What you are saying, IOW, is that "own" is a subset of "possess." 

In English, sometimes.  In Klingon, I don't know.  It's possible.

This watch belongs to me.  I am wearing it.
tlhaqwIj 'oH tlhaqvam'e'.  yebwIjDaq vIlan.  
-> I own it, and <vIghaj>.

That watch belongs to me.  But I lost it.
tlhaqwIj 'oH tlhaqvetlh'e'. 'ach vIchIl.  
-> I own it, but <vIghajbe'>.

jIHvaD taj noj jup.
A friend lends me his knife.
-> I don't own it, but <vIghaj>.

I don't think <ghaj> necessarily carries the connotation of "own"
in these cases.

> If this is
> true, than one can use the word "possess" wherever one can use the word
> "own." For example:
> 
> I own a house.
> I possess a house.
> juH vIghaj.

This may simply mean "I have a home", not "I own a home".  You
might live in a rented apartment.
 
> The emperor owns this ship.
> The emperor possesses this ship.
> Dujvam ghaj voDleH.

"The emperor has this ship", which may or may not be meaningful 
in context.  It only makes sense both ways in English because
"to have" can mean "to own" in English.  It might or might not 
mean that in Klingon.

In Cantonese/Chinese, there is a word "to have" which does not 
mean "to own".  To indicate possession one uses the possessive 
or uses a verb which means "to belong to" (this reverses the 
subject and object from English).  If I said "The emperor has
this ship" in Cantonese, I don't think it would be understood to
mean "The emperor owns this ship".  (It might be understood 
to mean that the emperor owns a ship (or ships) of 
this type, but does not own this particular ship.  The 
English actually also has this connotation.)  Of course there's 
no indication that Klingon works like Chinese, but there's no 
indication that it works like English either.
 
> The owner dislikes you.
> The possessor dislikes you.
> Dupar ghajwI'.
> 
> (Note that "have" could be substituted for "own" or "possess" in any of these
> examples: "I have a house," "The emperor has this ship," and "The haver
> dislikes you." Of course, "haver" isn't really a word, but you know what I
> mean.)

But only in English.

The example that I was thinking of which made me change my mind
was in a recent post in which I wrote:

<web site>vam vIghajbe'.

I meant to say, "I don't own this web site".  However, going strictly
by the definition in TKD, it only means "I don't have this web site",
which like the English may be complete gibberish.
 
> - DujHoD

I'm staying away from using <ghaj> to mean "to own" until there's
canon for it.  If others use it I'll understand it though.  I defer
to the wisdom of the native speakers, whom, as MO wrote, enjoys a
good fight anyways. =)

--
De'vID




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