tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Feb 13 23:02:21 2000
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RE: KLBC <chyrano berjeraq>
- From: "Eric Andeen" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: KLBC <chyrano berjeraq>
- Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:12:13 -0700
- Importance: Normal
jatlh J:
> <<chyrano berjeraq>>
> tlhIngan SuvwI' <ghaSqon> Sepvo' ghaH.
A noun with a type five suffix like <-vo'> has to go at the beginning of the
sentence, and it modifies the whole sentence. Also, <-vo'> is used to
describe an action directed away from the noun. This kind of "from" isn't
that.
When we talk about someone being "from" a place in English (or French), we
either mean the person was born there, or that he currently lives there, or
both. For the first case, you can use <bogh>, and for the second <Dab> is
perfect.
Finally, while you could combine the two ideas of this sentence - that he
was a Klingon warrior and that he lives in ghaSqon Sep - it would be much
clearer as two sentences.
tlhIngan SuvwI' ghaH. <ghaSqon> Sep Dab.
> val; Huy' rur, pIj jatlh jatDaj jej.
majQa'. Very nice.
In general, though, if you have a subject repeated, it's best to put it
after the first verb:
val jatDaj jej; Huy rur 'ej pIj jatlh
> qonwI Dun ghaH.
Typo: <qonwI'>.
> Hay'mey law' Suv.
<Hay'> is a verb, not a noun. Unless you meant <may'>, you have to say
something like:
pIj Hay'.
> moHbe' ghaH 'ach Quch Hab ghaj.
In English, it's natural to say "he has a smooth forehead", but in Klingon,
the natural way is "his forhead is smooth". The most famous curse in Klingon
mu'qaD veS is <Hab SoSlI' Quch>, which Okrand translated into English as
"Your mother has a smooth forehead".
> por chIS ghaj mIvDaj.
maj.
> mIvDaq qImmo' Hoch, QuchDaj qImHa' Hoch.
In English, a lot of verbs use helper pronouns - listen to, concentrate on,
participate in, etc. Klingon doesn't work this way. Often the English helper
pronoun is built into the verb, as in <buS> - "concentrate on". But
sometimes the Klingon verb doesn't work like the English verb at all, like
<'Ij> - "listen".
You (probably) can't say <Duj vI'Ij> in Klingon any more than you could say
"I listen the car" in English. And you *definitely* can't say <DujDaq jI'Ij>
to mean "I listen to the car". This would actually mean that I am doing my
listening *in* (or by,at,on,etc.) the car, which is quite different. The
noun suffix <-Daq> is *only* used for spatial concepts of location or
motion, and can't fill in for English's helper pronouns.
The definition of <qIm> - "pay attention, concentrate" - suggests that it
might not be able to take an object. The definition of <qImHa'> -
"disregard" - looks like it *can* take an object, and it's quite clearly the
opposite of <qIm>. I think I remember a discussion about this a while back
on the list, with a canon example of <qIm> (not <qImHa'>; just <qIm>) being
used with an object, but the new list archive seems to lack a search
function, so I can't be sure.
So I guess the net result is that you have to drop the <-Daq> on <mIv>. If
<qIm> cannot take an object, you could always use <buS>.
> cyrano of berjeraq
> He is a Klingon warrior from the gascon region.
> Clever as an eyebrow, his sharp tongue speaks often.
> He is a great composer.
> He fights many duels.
> He is not ugly, but he has a smooth forehead.
> His helmet has a white leaf on it.
> Everyone pays attention to the helmet,
> everyone disregards his forehead.
> chyrano bang'a' ghaH <raqSan> joH,
You need an <-'e'> on the end of <joH>.
> 'ach raqSan bang ghaH <chrIStan.>
Do'Ha'.
> SuvwI' Qup ghaH chrIStan.
> ra'wI'Daj ghaH chyrano.
Again, you need to add <-'e'> to the noun after the <ghaH>.
> maqoch chaH.
maj.
> Lady Roxane is Cyrano's great love[??] but Christian
> is Roxane's love.
> Christian is a young warrior.
> Cyrano is his commander.
> They are buddies.
> raqSan leghDI' chrIStan, Soy'choH 'ej DoghchoH.
> nalqaD taghvIp.
> When Christian sees Roxane he becomes clumsy and foolish.
> He is afraid to intitate a mating challenge.
majQa'. Very nice.
> ghor'eghtaHvIS tIqDaj, chang'eng bang Qorgh chyrano.
Does <ghor'eghtaHvIS tIqDaj> work in Klingon? It's a cultural question more
than a language question. I can't say for sure, but it works for me. There's
enough imagery about hearts in the Klingon language and culture we know
about to make it at least pretty likely.
The other potential question is whether <chang'eng> goes in front of <bang>
or after it. If <chang'eng> works like <Hoch>, <'op> and the like, then it
goes before the noun. On the other hand, if it's just a regular noun, then
the other noun has to come first. Consider, assuming <chang'eng> is a
regular noun:
chang'eng bang - "The pair's loved one(s)" -OR- "The loved one(s) of the
pair"
bang chang'eng - "The loved ones' pair" -OR- "The pair of loved ones"
I believe the only canon use of <chang'eng> is from the Bird of Prey poster,
which doesn't help. Perhaps Voragh can provide guidance.
> bang bommey qon chyrano 'ej raqSanDaq bIH much loDHom.
He doesn't sing them *at* Roxanne, he sings the for Roxanne. Use <-vaD>
instead of <-Daq>. And while Christian may be young, I don't know that he
would be called a boy. <SuvwI' Qup> or something similar would probably be
better.
> While his own heart breaks [??], Cyrano takes cake of the lovers.
> Cyrano composes love songs, and the boy sings them to Roxane.
> batlh, bom, yIn, bang je ja' chyrano lut.
> Cyrano's story tells of honor, song, life and love.
majQa'.
This is an excellent way to practice your Klingon. If you had set out to
*translate* Cyrano de Bergerac, you would have failed and wound up with a
very long, incomprehensible mess. So would I and many of the other skilled
Klingon speakers on this list, for that matter. Instead, you wrote a short
description of the story in your own words, and with a few corrections, you
did it in very good Klingon.
pagh
Beginners' Grammarian