tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 22 11:36:54 2000

Back to archive top level

To this year's listing

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]

RE: tlhIngan "Tao" ?

taghqIj:

> taj'IH chopwI' wrote:
>> 
>> My question:
>> What would be a good tlhIngan Hol representation of Tao?
>> 
>> I have been thinking about:
>> - (tlhIngan) tIgh : the (Klingon) custom/ way (TKW)
>> - ghob: ethics/ virtue (TKW)
> 
> for literality's sake, i'd go for <He> (or maybe <He'a'>).. if 
> we're translating meaning, i'd prefer:

Okrand has said very specifically (and I was sitting next to him at the
time) that <He> does *not* refer to this sort of thing. The English words
"way" and "path" can be extended metaphorically from physical paths to
spiritual ones, but that just doesn't work in Klingon.

> <chenmoHtaHwI'> - that which is always causing [things] to take 
> form (the tao contains all things in potentiality, good and evil, 
> female and male, light and dark, creative and destructive)

With a great deal of explanation, this might be a reasonable label for the
concept, although I don't quite get it at this point.

> <Doch ponglaHbogh pagh> - the thing which cannot be named (to 
> 'name' something means more than just to give it a label - it 
> is to place it in some sort of context and/or hierarchy of 
> entites - especially in ancient Chinese thought, i believe. the 
> tao is completely beyond context or hierarchy. 'the tao which 
> can be explained is not the true tao; the tao which can be 
> named is not the true tao.') 

There's no evidence that Klingon attaches this special meaning to the word
<pong> or to names. We do know that Klingons place quite a bit of value and
honor in family names, that's about the only special significance <pong> has
(that I know of), either as a noun or a verb.

>> I favor ghob - it denotes "a particularly valued quality or 
>> a form of behavior exemplifies moral correctness, as defined 
>> by a society" The moral part disturbs me a little, perhaps 
>> this is just a Federation misinterpretation :-)

Klingons are generally quite moral. Their moral code is just a bit ...
different from most humans'.

>> Otherwise, ghob seems just right, especially when you look 
>> at the context in various TKW proverbs:
>>
>> "Adhere to Virtue honorably" : batlh ghob yIpab
>> "Virtue is the reward" : pop 'oH ghob'e'
>> 
>> So Virtue / ghob is a greater quality than the single person 
>> and his needs, also something beyond mere law. (A situation 
>> is conceivable that following Virtue honorably might mean 
>> breaking a law.)

> i do not like <ghob> as a translation because TKW specifically 
> defines 'adhering [pab] to virtue [<ghob>]' as 'behav[ing] in a 
> way Klingons consider morally righteous' and, although i am not 
> a taoist, i do not believe that the tao would correspond very 
> closely at all to klingon 'virtue', or what they consider 
> righteous.

> is it not the case that klingon culture values action, aggression...
> butlh..? on the other hand, i believe that taoism favours humility;
> compassion; mercy; empathy; wu-wei, 'non-action'; allowing things to
> take their natural course; seeking to become completely open to the 
> tao, surrendering onself to it so that it can work through one. 
> 'stand like the mountain, flow like the stream, bend with the wind 
> like the reed.'

So Tao is a concept that is foreign to Klingon culture, or at least the
parts we know about. qay'be'. It's fairly foreign to Western (human) culture
as well. Is there an reasonable English word for Tao? If there were, we
probably wouldn't use Tao, which most English speakers can't pronounce very
well. It's no surprise that finding a Klingon word is difficult. I suspect
someone translating Taoist writings into Klingon would probably just give up
and use <taw> or <Daw>.

> the klingon way seems diametrically opposed to these. take these few
> sayings from TKW:
> 
> - DabuQlu'DI' yISuv ("when threatened, fight")
>
> - bI'IQchugh, yIvang! ("if you are sad, act!" - "..for a Klingon,
> activity and vigour are associated with a sense of elation, while
> unhappiness is often connected to passivity or even laziness, 
> character traits disdained by Klingons")
>
> - Dubotchugh yIpummoH ("if it's in your way, knock it down" -
> "..illustrating the Klingon penchant for action and for taking
> control..")
>
> - mataHmeH maSachnIS ("to survive, we must expand")
>
> - Hem tlhIngan Segh 'ej maHemtaH 'e' wIHech ("Klingons are a 
> proud race, and we intend to go on being proud")
>
> - bISuv 'e' yIwIv; bISutlh 'e' yIwIvQo' ("choose to fight, not
> negotiate")
>
> - pung ghap HoS ("mercy or power" - "[the use of <ghap>] implies 
> that one must choose between mercy and power; they are 
> incompatible")
> 
> the one that struck me the most, though, was:
> 
> - SuvmeH 'ej charghmeH bogh tlhInganpu' ("Klingons are born 
> to fight and conquer")
> 
> again, i'm no taoist, but i'm certain that they do not 
> believe they are born to "fight and conquer" - quite the 
> opposite, in fact!

bIlughbej. ghaytan *Tao* luyajbe'chu' HochHom tlhInganpu'.


pagh

Back to archive top level