tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 24 06:00:14 2000
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Re: tlhIngan "Tao" ?
majQa'!
K'Pach
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Stasel
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 1:12 AM
Subject: RE: tlhIngan "Tao" ?
I would have to agree with JaHinTa' on this point. Being a person
whom considers himself somewhere between the Taoist philosophy and
Buddhism, I would say that such things cannot be translated.
however, while reading The Klingon Way, and thinking generally into
Klingon there is something there... perhaps something that might be
considered a Tao. But only in the context of the typical translation
of Tao being "the way". A Taoist would just assume sit in his/her
back yard watching the world go by as anything else. To a Klingon,
this would be considered old, and feable... two words which if spoken
to a klingon would get you backhanded.
I think Chuang Tzu said it best in the story of Carpender Shih (I
know this is not a discussion form for Taoism... however, I believe
this is something a Klingon would never understand...
- ----
Carpenter Shih was on his way to Chi, when he came to a place called
Chu Yuan, where he saw an oak tree which was venerated as the home of
the spirits of the land. The tree was so vast that a thousand oxen
could hide behind it. It was a hundred spans round and it soared
above the hill to eighty feet before it even began to put out
branches. There were ten such branches, from any one of which an
entire boat could be carved. Masses of people came to it, giving the
place a carnival atmosphere, but carpenter Shih didn't even look
round, just went on his way. His assistant looked at it with great
intensity, and then chased after his master and said, "Since I first
took up my axe and followed you, I have never seen a wood such as
this. Sir, why did you not even glance at it nor stop, but just kept
going?"
He said, "Silence, not another word! This tree is useless. Make a
boat from it and it would sink; make a coffin and it would rot
quickly; make some furniture and it would fall to pieces; make a door
and it would be covered in seeping sap; make a pillar and it would be
worm-eaten. This wood is useless and good for nothing. This is why
it has lived so long."
When Master Shih was returning, the tree appeared to him in a dream,
saying, "What exactly are you comparing me with? With ornamental
Fruit trees? Trees such as the hawthorn, pear trees, orange trees,
citrus trees, gourds and other such fruit trees? Their fruits are
knocked down when they are ripe and the trees suffer. The big
branches are damaged and the small ones are broken off. Because they
are useful, they suffer, and they are unable to live out the years
Heaven has given them. They have only their usefulness to blame for
this destruction wrought by the people. It is the same with all
things. I have spent a long time studying to be useless, though on a
couple of occasions I was nearly destroyed. However now I have
perfected the art of uselessness, and this is very useful, to me! If
I had been of use, could I have grown so vast? Furthermore, you and
I are both things. How can one thing make such statements about
another? How can you, a useless man about to die, know anything
about a useless tree?
When carpenter Shih awoke, he told his apprentice what he had dreamt.
The apprentice said, "If it wants to be useless, why is it used as a
shrine for the spirits of the land?"
"Hush! Don't say another word!" said Shih, "The tree happens to be
here so it is an altar. By this it protects itself from harm from
those who do not realize it is useless, for were it not an altar, it
would run the risk of being chopped down. Furthermore, this tree is
no ordinary one, so to speak of it in normal terms is to miss the
point."
Nan Po Tzu Chi, wandering amongst the mountains of Shang, came upon a
great and unusual tree, under which could shelter a thousand
chariots, and they would all be covered. Tzu Chi said, "What kind
of tree is this? It is surely a most wondrous piece of timber!"
However, when he looked up, he could see that the smaller branches
were so twisted and gnarled that they could not be made into rafters
and beams; and looking down at the trunk he saw it was warped and
distorted and would not make good coffins. He licked one of its
leaves and his mouth felt scarped and sore. He sniffed it and it
nearly drove him mad, as if he had been drunk for three days.
"This tree is certainly good for nothing," said Tzu Chi. "This is
why it has grown so large. Ah-Ha! This is the sort of uselessness
that sages live by."
- --------
"...The cinnamon tree is edible, so it is cut down. The varnish tree
is useful and it is cut about. Everyone knows the usefulness of the
useful, but no one knows the usefulness of the useless!"
- -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: tlhIngan "Tao" ?
Eric Andeen wrote:
> lalDan qellu'...
>
> De'vID:
> > On a similar note, how would one "translate" the (Buddhist) idea
> > of dhamma/dharma into Klingon? (Actually the Chinese usually
> > rendered "dharma" with "Tao".)
>
> The *Hindu* idea of "dharma" fits very nicely with <ghob>. I'm not
> so sure about the Buddhist version, though.
>
> pagh
I do not think the Buddhist way of looking at things could ever be
compared to
the Klingon way - being a Buddhist actually makes me almost sure of
that :o)
JaHinTa'