tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 08 21:13:23 2000

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Re: Once upon a time



De'vID:
: I understood you, but I'm pretty sure that the use of the word "once"
: to denote "a long time ago" is an English-ism that doesn't make sense
: in Klingon.  /wa'logh/ means "once" only in the sense of "one time" 
: and not "long ago", as far as I know.

Correct.  I imagine we use it as an abbreviation for "one (unspecified)
time in
the past".  For those curious, here's chapter and verse on {-logh}:

  Adding {-logh} to a number gives the notion of repetitions. 
  {wa'logh} "once," {cha'logh} "twice," {Hutlogh} "nine times."
  These numbers function in the sentence as adverbials (section
  5.4).  [TKD p.55]

He used it in an example on Power Klingon:

  naDev juHlIjDaq cha'logh jISopneSchugh vaj jIquv.
  It would be an honor to eat twice here at your house, your Honor.

In Klingon for the Galactic Traveller we learned of a couple of colloquial
variants:

  The suffix {-logh}, when attached to numbers, is used to count
  the number of instances of something: {wa'logh} (once), {cha'logh}
  (twice), {vaghlogh} (five times). When {-logh} is attached to 
  {pagh} (zero), the resulting form, {paghlogh} (zero times) is used
  as an emphatic alternate for {not} (never), as in {paghlogh jegh 
  tlhIngan SuvwI'} (a Klingon warrior surrenders zero times)... 
  compare {not jegh tlhIngan SuvwI'} (a Klingon warrior never
  surrenders). Similarly, when {-logh} is attached to {Hoch} (all),
  the resulting word, {Hochlogh} (all times), is used in the same
  way as {reH} (always), as in {Hochlogh no' yIquvmoH} (All times
  honor your ancestors...); compare {reH no' yIquvmoH} (Always honor
  your ancestors)."  [KGT p.178]

And Okrand extended this to {'arlogh} "how many times?" on startrek.klingon
(2/99):

 'arlogh wab Qoylu'pu'?
  How many times has someone heard the sound?
  How many times has the sound been heard? 

  qen 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'?
  Recently, how many times has someone heard it?
  (i.e. What time is it?) 

: Which leads to the question, is there a way to say "Once upon a time"
: in tlhIngan Hol?

Not that we know of, though I'm sure we'll eventually learn of several
traditional (and knowing Okrand, unpredictable!) story formulae.
Unofficially,
many people on the list use variations of {ben} "years ago" (n.):

  *{ben law'}     many years ago, long ago
  *{ben law'qu'}  long, long ago
  *{ben puS}      some years ago, a few years ago

I would just go with a simple, vague {ben law'}.  One caveat:  Okrand has
never
used {ben} or any of the other time nouns without a number, so although {ben
law'} may be grammatical, it may not turn out to be idiomatic.  But until
Maltz
tells us of something better, I think it does nicely.


-- 
Voragh                       
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons 


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