tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Oct 30 22:40:15 1999

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Nonroving rovers

ja'pu' ~mark:
>...(obviously I'm referring to "true" rovers, as opposed to {-Ha'} and
>{-Qo'}, whose positions are fixed.)

ja' charghwI':
>Well, having seen this statement go by a few times now, I
>finally can no longer let it simply continue to pass. I would
>argue that {-Ha'} really IS a true rover in that it definitely
>applies its meaning to what immediately preceeds it. It is
>simply that because of the way that it works, it can only be
>applied to the root verb. Its meaning is ALWAYS fundamentally
>linked to the root verb. The fact that it always preceeds any
>existing suffixes is an effect of the way it works, not just an
>arbitrary grammatical rule.

I think it *is* an arbitrary rule.  That's approximately how Okrand
describes it in TKD:  "It is interesting that {-Ha'} always occurs
right after the verb.  It is not known why Klingon grammarians insist
on calling it a rover.  It was felt best not to argue with Klingon
tradition, however, so {-Ha'} is here classified as a rover."

It doesn't say {-Ha'} *must* occur there.  It says that it always
*does*.  Maybe it was simply never seen anywhere else when TKD was
put together.  Remember the oddity on Skybox card SP2, {SuvwI' taj}:

{not Hub'eghrupHa' lo'wI'.}
"...the user is never caught at a disadvantage."

If this isn't an outright error, {-Ha'} actually *can* rove.

>As for {-Qo'}, I think it works the way other people have argued
>that {-be'} works. It implies refusal globally applied to
>everything that preceeds it. The entire verb with all of its
>affixes has a meaning and {-Qo'} implies refusal by the subject
>applied to that entire meaning. The position is an effect of its
>function, not separate from that function.

I disagree slightly here.  There are times when I want to qualify
the refusal with a Type 6 suffix, or to specify aspect of the
refusal with a Type 7.  But because {-Qo'} won't rove, I can't do

-- ghunchu'wI' 'utlh

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