Hoch

["Lily Ng" <lilyng1@hotmail.com>]

In a listing titled nID cha' attn:KLBG
jathl DraQoS:

>Hoch qo' Qujmaj yos

chup pagh:

>qo' Hoch 'oH Qujmaj yoS'e'
><Hoch> placed after a noun means "All of X; the entirety of X".

jathl Lily:
Where is this stated? Pagh, are you trying to use Hoch as N2 in a N1_N2 
construction? If so, I thought that Mark Shoulson wrote that Hoch is to be 
no longer treated in N_N constructions but instead as a quantifier where 
"Hoch comes before, and not after" (HolQeD, Vol5,2:11).
In fact, your statement (if it was yours) contradicts when he wrote that 
Hoch coming "after" a plural noun meant "All the X's , taken collectively" 
(which seems equivalent to your "entirety"). So <Hoch tlhInganpu'> is "all 
Klingons" and it can also be placed before a not explicity plural noun to 
mean "every X, individually".

Pagh, if you wanted to suggest "All of X", wouldn't it be better to stick to 
Krankor's suggestion of naQ instead?

jathl Krankor (HolQeD, Vol5,2:3):
>Hoch chabmey Soppu'!
>"He ate all of the pies!" but not "He ate all of the pie!" While it is 
>possible that Hoch could also be used in this way, it is probably still 
>safer at present to use <naQ> - "be full, whole, entire." Thus,
chab naQ Soppu'!


Comments appreciated.
Lily



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