tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 11 17:09:13 1999
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Re: KLBC Intro: Part two
- From: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: KLBC Intro: Part two
- Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:08:41 EST
In a message dated 99-11-11 18:13:19 EST, you write:
> wa'DIch:
> nuqDaq De'vam tu'lu' ? neH yuQmeH SeghmeH 'ej lo'taH 'a' ?
Your first sentence is right. "Where is this information?"
Literally "Where does one find this information?"
qatlho'.
Then you have detached the interrogative
verb suffix {-'a'} as if it were a word all by itself.
Sorry. Rented fingers. Extra space bar. Thanks for the constructive
criticism.
This
leaves us with one meaningful word: {lo'taH}. "He continuously
uses it." I don't understand any of this.
> (I think I have that right...I want to know where the rules governing
usage
> of the -ngan (inhabitant of) suffix are located, and if it is used only
with
> planets to describe races.)
nuqDaq mu' <<ngan>> lo'meH mIw Dellu'? nuvpu' Segh Dellu'meH mu'
<<ngan>> lo'lu'. latlh Dellu'meH lo'lu''a'?
That's my guess for how to say what you meant to say. It's not
easy, so I don't blame you for not doing it well, but given how
much you've done right everywhere else, it is remarkable how
many illegal and strange things you packed into that one
sentence when you tried it. It's like you really do know better.
You just stumbled somewhere and tossed out everything you knew
and started putting verb suffixes on nouns, forgot that {neH}
used as the adverb meaning "only" has to FOLLOW what it modifies
and generally crashed even before you got to the crux of the
problem, which was building a fairly complex sentence or
two heavily dependent upon a couple purpose clauses.
Don't sugar-coat it, man...tell me what you *really* think.
(Actually, I had help with part of it, and that was the part. I suppose I
shoulda graded the help before I included it...but then, that's why it was
sent to this list, no?
> cha'DIch:
> tera'ngan vIttlhegh tIQ 'e' vImugh vInIDtaH. jImughchu' ' e' choja' vIneH.
You have misplaced the pronoun {'e'}. You want it between
{vImugh} and {vInIDtaH}. You also don't want any Type 7 suffix
on a verb following {'e'}. That's one of Okrand's great "gotcha"
rules many of us hate, but we generally abide by it. Drop {-taH}
from {vInIDtaH}. You don't really need it, anyway. The sentence
works just fine without it.
tera'ngan vIttlhegh tIQ vimugh 'e' vInID.
Well, actually, I was attempting to imply that I am still (ongoing) trying to
translate the ancient Terran proverb. I was under the impression that the
-taH suffix gave that connotation. It was in an attempt to complete the
attempt that I sought your august counsel.
Your second sentence would be perfect if Klingon ever has
indirect quotation. Unfortunately, I don't remember ever seeing
this in any usage. More typically, you'd use direct quotation,
so you'd drop the {'e'} before {choja'} and you'd change
{jImughchu'} to {bImughchu'}, since you want to hear us say "You
speak clearly." You don't want to hear us say, "I speak clearly."
Actually, I did not want to hear you say anything. I thought what I said was
"I want you to *tell* me (ja' = tell, report) that I *translate* (mugh)
clearly. I suppose that means I did not.
> " jIQIj 'e' DaneHchugh vaj not bIyajchu' . "
You don't need {'e'} with {neH}. I know what you are trying to
say here, but my gut says that this doesn't fully carry the
meaning. I don't know a concise way to say this in Klingon.
tIq Dab qechvam. yab Dabbe' qechvam, vaj SoHvaD qechvam
vIQIjlaHbe'.
This idea dwells in the heart.
This idea does not dwell in the mind, so I cannot explain it for you.
Hmmmm.....
> The ancient Terran proverb is "If I have to explain, you would not
> understand." The translation seems that it would not be quite literal,
rather
> implying that if you need me to explain it for you, then you will never
> really understand it.
I believe that the English points to its meaning so indirectly
as to be idiomatic, so my first step in trying to convey this
meaning is to completely abandon the English approach. I take
the idea and try to use Klingon tools to express it.
> juDmoS
charghwI'
</XMP>
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