tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 11 17:09:13 1999

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Re: KLBC Intro: Part two



In a message dated 99-11-11 18:13:19 EST, you write:

 
  
 > wa'DIch:
 > nuqDaq De'vam tu'lu'  ?  neH yuQmeH SeghmeH 'ej  lo'taH 'a' ?
 
 Your first sentence is right. "Where is this information?" 
 Literally "Where does one find this information?"

qatlho'.

 
 Then you have detached the interrogative 
 verb suffix {-'a'} as if it were a word all by itself. 

Sorry. Rented fingers. Extra space bar.  Thanks for the constructive 
criticism.

This 
 leaves us with one meaningful word: {lo'taH}. "He continuously 
 uses it." I don't understand any of this.
 
 > (I think I have that right...I want to know where the rules governing 
usage 
 > of the -ngan (inhabitant of) suffix are located, and if it is used only 
with 
 > planets to describe races.)
  
 nuqDaq mu' <<ngan>> lo'meH mIw Dellu'? nuvpu' Segh Dellu'meH mu' 
 <<ngan>> lo'lu'. latlh Dellu'meH lo'lu''a'?
 
 That's my guess for how to say what you meant to say. It's not 
 easy, so I don't blame you for not doing it well, but given how 
 much you've done right everywhere else, it is remarkable how 
 many illegal and strange things you packed into that one 
 sentence when you tried it. It's like you really do know better. 
 You just stumbled somewhere and tossed out everything you knew 
 and started putting verb suffixes on nouns, forgot that {neH} 
 used as the adverb meaning "only" has to FOLLOW what it modifies 
 and generally crashed even before you got to the crux of the 
 problem, which was building a fairly complex sentence or 
 two heavily dependent upon a couple purpose clauses.

Don't sugar-coat it, man...tell me what you *really* think.
(Actually, I had help with part of it, and that was the part. I suppose I 
shoulda graded the help before I included it...but then, that's why it was 
sent to this list, no?

 
 
 > cha'DIch:
 > tera'ngan vIttlhegh tIQ 'e' vImugh vInIDtaH. jImughchu' ' e' choja' vIneH.
 
 You have misplaced the pronoun {'e'}. You want it between 
 {vImugh} and {vInIDtaH}. You also don't want any Type 7 suffix 
 on a verb following {'e'}. That's one of Okrand's great "gotcha" 
 rules many of us hate, but we generally abide by it. Drop {-taH} 
 from {vInIDtaH}. You don't really need it, anyway. The sentence 
 works just fine without it.
 
tera'ngan vIttlhegh tIQ vimugh 'e' vInID.

Well, actually, I was attempting to imply that I am still (ongoing) trying to 
translate the ancient Terran proverb. I was under the impression that the 
-taH suffix gave that connotation. It was in an attempt to complete the 
attempt that I sought your august counsel.

 Your second sentence would be perfect if Klingon ever has 
 indirect quotation. Unfortunately, I don't remember ever seeing 
 this in any usage. More typically, you'd use direct quotation, 
 so you'd drop the {'e'} before {choja'} and you'd change 
 {jImughchu'} to {bImughchu'}, since you want to hear us say "You 
 speak clearly." You don't want to hear us say, "I speak clearly."

Actually, I did not want to hear you say anything. I thought what I said was 
"I want you to *tell* me  (ja' = tell, report)  that I *translate* (mugh)   
clearly. I suppose that means I did not.
 > " jIQIj 'e' DaneHchugh vaj not bIyajchu' . "
 
 You don't need {'e'} with {neH}. I know what you are trying to 
 say here, but my gut says that this doesn't fully carry the 
 meaning. I don't know a concise way to say this in Klingon.
 
 tIq Dab qechvam. yab Dabbe' qechvam, vaj SoHvaD qechvam 
 vIQIjlaHbe'.
 
This idea dwells in the heart.
This idea does not dwell in the mind, so I cannot explain it for you. 
Hmmmm.....

 > The ancient Terran proverb is "If I have to explain, you would not 
 > understand." The translation seems that it would not be quite literal, 
rather 
 > implying that if you need me to explain it for you, then you will never 
 > really understand it.
 
 I believe that the English points to its meaning so indirectly 
 as to be idiomatic, so my first step in trying to convey this 
 meaning is to completely abandon the English approach. I take 
 the idea and try to use Klingon tools to express it.
  
 > juDmoS
 
 charghwI'
 
 </XMP>
 
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