tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 28 19:59:32 1999
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Re: KLBC: poH HochDaq Qong
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: poH HochDaq Qong
- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:59:20 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- Priority: NORMAL
While I respect pagh and fully expect him to be able to do this,
I've already seen another message based on this answered by
another non-BG and I see errors bouncing around. Pardon the
intrusion from a former BG... -charghwI' 'utlh
On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:16:28 -0800 (PST) Barbara Joslyn
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Qong - to sleep
> bIQong - thou sleeps
> SuQong - you (thou and they) sleep
> SuQongchuq - you sleep with one another
Where did the "with" come from? This doesn't work.
> SuQongchuqtaH - you continuously sleep toghether
>
> HoH - to kill
> HoHpu' - he killed (them)
> HoHlu'pu' - someone killed them, they are kiled (dead)
> HoHlu'pu'wI'pu' - Those who are killed, the Dead
While I once argued that {-lu'} and {-wI'} ought to work
together like this, I lost the argument. The point is that
{-wI'} refers to the one who does the action, the subject of the
action, and {-lu'} doesn't really reverse the roles of subject
and object. It just makes the subject indefinite. So, combining
these suffixes just means that the killer is indefinite. It
really doesn't work. You are working too hard to build really
big words and interactions of the affixes are failing to carry
the meaning you want. Likely you should back up a step or two
and get more practice in with more straightforward words.
> batlh - honour
> bathlHa' - dishonour
{batlh} is either a noun meaning honor or an adverb meaning
"honorably, with honor". {batlhHa'} can only be an adverb
meaning "dishonorably". You can't put {-Ha'} on a noun. It only
works for verbs and adverbs, and we only recently learned that
it worked for adverbs.
> batlhHa'lu' - someone dishonours them, they are dishonoured
{batlh} is not a verb. {quv} is a verb.
> HoHlu'pu'wI'pu' batlhHa'lu'bogh - The Dishonoured Dead
Heghpu'wI'pu' quvHa' - The Dishonored Dead.
> ghe''orDaq poH HochDaq je SuQongchuqtaH soH HoHlu'pu'wI'pu'
> batlhHa'lu'bogh je vIneH - "In {ghe''or} and for all time I want you
> sleeping with the Dishonoured Dead."
{-Daq} indicates a location, not a time. Consider the adverb
{reH} and the verb {tlhej} or {muv} or even {moj}. Very simply,
{Heghpu'wI' quvHa' Damoj vIneH.}
> Or, to make it a command:
>
> ghe''orDaq poH HochDaq je beQongchuqtaH soH HoHlu'pu'wI'pu' batlhHa'lu'bogh
> je - "Sleep, thou, for all time in {ghe''or} with the Dishonoured Dead.
This one is VERY confused. {reH Heghpu'wI'pu' quvHa' tItlhej.
yIQong neH.} It is interesting that you presume that the
dishonored dead merely sleep.
> I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the grammer for a toast (or in
> this case, a curse) differes from normal {tlhIngan Hol}. Is this true, and
> if so how?
As was pointed out, the word order for toasts is different. The
subject comes between the object and the verb instead of
following the verb. But that is only for toasts, not for curses
or wishes. Toasts, curses and wishes all use the suffix {-jaj},
but only toasts change the word order.
> quljIb
charghwI' 'utlh