tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 22 10:59:34 1999
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Re: KLBC: {-ghach} (was Re: qama')
quljIb wrote:
: Thanks. This clears up a number of questions I had. It also prevents me
: from using a "replacement proverb" I came up with in case I couldn't get a
: decent answer. Here it is:
: {neghDaj DevmeH, vuvchaj ghajnISqu' ra'wI' pagh ra'laHbe'}
: To lead his troops, a commander _must_ have their respect or he cannot
: command them.
Not quite. {vuv} "respect" is a verb; at this point, we don't know whether
the homophonous noun exists in the "modern" language. So you have two
choices:
You can use a different noun:
neghDaj DevmeH, naDchaj ghajnISqu' ra'wI'.
To lead his troops, a commander *must* have their approval.
Granted, this isn't quite the same thing as "respect". Although {naD} was
only glossed "commendation" in TKD, it may (?) also have the sense of
"praise" or "approval" in the right context. Note that the verb {naD}
"praise, commend, approve" means more than "commend". Even simpler:
negh DevmeH, naDchaj ghajnIS ra'wI'.
To lead troops, a commander *must* have their approval.
(Hmmm. Since {-chaj} refers to grammatically singular {negh}, should this
be really be {-Daj}? Does the implied, logical plural take precedence over
the grammatical singular?)
Secondly, you can rephrase using the verb {vuv}:
neghDaj DevmeH, vuvnISqu' pagh ra'laHbe' ra'wI'chaj.
To lead his troops, they must really respect him or (else) their
commander cannot lead (them).
Putting the subject "commander" way at the end of of the compound sentece
is awkward in English, though it may be good Klingon. Another version:
DevmeH ra'wI', vuvnISqu' neghDaj pagh ra'laHbe' ghaH.
For a commander to lead, his troops must really respect him, else
he cannot lead (them).
(I'm assuming {ghaH} can only refer to the {ra'wI'} and not also to {negh},
even though it is grammatically singular. Does anyone know of any examples
of pronouns referring to inherently plural, grammatically singular nouns?)
It's sometimes good Klingon style to repeat the subject in both clauses of
a complex sentence:
DevmeH ra'wI', vuvnISqu' neghDaj pagh ra'laHbe' ra'wI'.
For a commander to lead, his troops must really respect him, else
the commander cannot lead (them).
Finally, to make a better sounding proverb I would drop the final clause
altogether, as well as the {-qu'} -- Klingon warriors either respect
someone or they don't (no wishy-washy shades of grey for them!):
DevmeH ra'wI' vuvnIS neghDaj.
For a commander to lead, his troops must respect him.
or in more idiomatic English:
To lead, a commander must have his troops' respect.
which is pretty much what you were after originally. A good translation
doesn't need to be grammatically word-for-word, form-for-form between
languages.
As you see, every attempt at rephrasing brings its own problems. But
that's why many of us like this language.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons