tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 14 23:37:51 1999
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: -moH Curiousity {was Re: deep structures}
- From: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: -moH Curiousity {was Re: deep structures}
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 02:37:15 EST
In a message dated 3/14/1999 2:28:53 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< ja' peHruS:
>I answer my own question: I can visualize students being caused to learn; I
>cannot visualize a language being caused to learn anything. For this
analysis
>alone, I would suspect that the best Direct Object of {ghojmoH} is
>{ghojwI'pu'}.
You're answering your question by assuming that the entity being made to do
something is the direct object of a verb with {-moH}. Based on quite a lot
of discussion here and the examination of a few examples from TKD and other
sources, that assumption is shaky at best.
>If I follow through on the pattern, I get {tlhIngan HolvaD ghojwI'pu'
ghojmoH
>qup}. But, since we're not doing anything for the benefit of {tlhIngan
Hol},
>ostensibly, the only way I can see the phrase {tlhIngan HolvaD} fitting into
a
>sentence like this is if we are allowed to consider it an Indirect Object or
>*Second Object. Some folks have talked about ditransitivity. I do not know
>if this fits into such a pattern. I just feel that the Direct Object of
>{ghojmoH} has to be someone who can be caused to learn.
>
>Comments?
charghwI' and ter'eS have provided compelling arguments that the causation
from {-moH} is applied to a verb's beneficiary, not to its object. With a
transitive verb like {ghoj}, that means the object of the verb is the same
with or without the {-moH}. >>
===================================
TKD 'ay'vetlh vIlaDqa'pu'. QeD ghojlaH ghojmoHwI'; ghojwI'pu' ghojbe'.
ghojwI'pu'vaD QeD ghojlaH ghojmoHwI'.
After re-reading TKD's defintion re: {-moH}, I readily see that the DO object
of a verb with the suffix {-moH} is not being caused to do anything, rather it
is caused to become something. {tIjwI'ghom vIchenmoH} obviously means "I
cause a boarding party to BE formed." I retract any and all statements which
implied that "The teacher is causing students to BE learned."
Now, this means that an IO using {-vaD} makes sense to me. {ghojwI'pu'vaD QeD
ghojmoH ghojmoHwI'} translates as "The teacher causes the science to BE
learned for the benefit of the students" or "The teacher teaches the science
TO the students."
Comments still welcome.
peHruS