RE: <batlh quv je>

["Andeen, Eric" <Eric.Andeen@Sequencia.com>]

jIjatlh:

><batlh quv je> is probably best translated as just "honor". I have my own
>theories on the differences between <batlh> and <quv>, and I would have
just
>said <quv>, but I won't speculate about that here.

jatlh qa'ral:

> You chose not to speculate then; how about now?  I'd be honored to learn 
> what theories you and others have on this score (other than that /quv/ can

> be a verb and /batlh/ an adverbial).  Even a subtle distinction in meaning

> must be tremendously revealing in a culture built on warrior values
(something 
> like the ten or however many words for snow in Inuit culture).  

OK then. I think the difference is probably similar to a lot of other pairs
(e.g. noH/veS; may'/vIq): <batlh> is the abstract notion of "honor", and
<quv> is more like one's personal honor. Thus I would probably never talk
about <batlhwIj>, but a class on good Klingon behaviour would contain a lot
of advice about <batlh>. I don't think I am alone in this belief; I think
others on the list have proposed similar ideas.

One example of <quv> being used this way is from the beginning of PK:
<quvwIj DatIchpu', tera'ngan>. TKW contains many more, including:

tlhIngan quv DatIchDI', Seng yIghuH
batlhHa' vanglu'taHvIS, quv chavbe'lu'
quv Hutlh HoHbogh tlhIngan 'ach qabDaj 'angbe'bogh

Examples from TKW using <batlh> as a noun: 

bath ghob yIpab
batlh potlh law' yIn potlh puS
batlh qelDI' tlhIngan, lumbe'

> In the same vein:  Is the relationship between /noH/ and /veS/ (recently 
> discussed) similar to that between /may'/ and /vIq/?  What about the 
> distinctions between /Suv/, /ghob/, and /Qoj/ and between /SuvwI'/ and
/vaj/?

Generally yes. See KGT for discussions of all of these things.


pagh
Beginners' Grammarian

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