tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Jan 10 14:50:23 1999

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Re: KLBC: HovqIj jun Hov wov

ja' ghunchu'wI':

> >> rut vIHbe'chu'meH wej 'uS ngaDmoHwI' lo'lu'.
> >
> >I kind of like this one. It seems understandable. I only have a question
> >about <wej 'uS ngaDmoHwI'> = "three leg stabilizer"/"stabilizer of three
> >legs".  <wej 'uS ngaDmoHwI'> seems to be a strange kind of N-N
> >construction. For N2 is a transitive verb which became a noun, the <wej
> >'uS> seem to still belong to the former verb.
> >wej 'uS ngaDmoH - it stabilizes three legs
> >==> wej 'uS ngaDmoHwI' - something that stabilizes three legs
> >I hope you can understand what I want to say. So, can we interpret the
> >N-N construction so loosely? Please enlighten me.
> The "Romulan hunter-killer probe" mentioned in the Star Trek: Klingon
> CD-ROM game is translated with a N-N phrase even more likely to be
> interpreted as having the first noun as an object.  I don't remember
> it perfectly, but it's something like {romuluSngan Sambogh 'ej HoHbogh
> nejwI'}.  I take this as an indication that my {wej 'uS ngaDmoHwI'} is
> just fine for what I want it to say.

Ah yes. It's the same pattern. I've always considered that canon example
strange, but it's there, and it proves the correctness of your sentence.

> >> >Oh, you got me wrong here. With <qawHaqqoq> I meant "film". "so-called
> >> >memory banks" seemed to be intelligible.
> >>
> >> *I* didn't have a clue that you meant "film".
> >
> >What did *you* think the sentence was to mean? How would you say "film"?
> I was considering a digital camera with a removable memory card.  If you
> want to translate "film" precisely, something with {mep beQ} might make
> sense.

I had noticed the fact that it might be confused with a digital camera.
But then I thought the memory card of  a digital camera and a film are
used for the same purpose: to save the picture data. So the film in some
way _is_ a memory card. However, it's not what is _generally_ understood
as memory card. That's why I used <-qoq>. <qawHaqqoq> describes the
function of a film. In contrast to that, your <mep beQ> describes its

> >> We *do* have a word for "picture" -- but it's a verb: {cha'}.
> >
> ><cha'> is useful in many cases, but not in all cases. I've used it
> >myself in my original post to describe "pictures"/"photos". Anyway, it
> >wasn't useful when I had to find a word I could use for "camera". If we
> >had a word for "picture" I would have said something like <"picture"
> >lIngwI'> or <"picture" lIngmeH jan> etc. Yet we don't have a noun for
> >"picture".
> What's wrong with {cha'wI'}?  "Thing which displays {a picture}" sounds
> pretty close to what you want. :-)  If you think it might be confused
> with {jIH} "monitor" or {HotlhwI'} "scanner, projector", then you might
> try {cha'bogh nav}.

Hmmm... but isn't a picture rather the thing displayed and less the
thing that displays?
<cha'bogh nav> is interesting. I think it should have an object since
<cha'> seems to be transitive only, but I'll keep it in mind. 

> >So I had to give a rather long description of a camera first
> >before I could find a name for "camera". I used <DoS taDmoHwI'> but I
> >could also have used <qolotlh> and it would have been understood. (Just
> >think of the car "Christine"...)
> Um...what?  You lost me completely here.  Until you presented the name
> {DoS taDmoHwI'} I was barely following your explanation; it was the name
> itself that clued me in to the idea of taking photographs.

Now, that's depressing! jIlujchu'.

> >Now you can argue that nevertheless I found a way to say what I wanted
> >to say and that I'm just a lazy person who needs one Klingon word for
> >each English word.
> Actually, I'd argue that you went to a lot of unnecessary trouble to say
> something that can be expressed much more simply with one Klingon word,
> or maybe two.



> >Usually I'd reply that you were wrong, that I liked
> >recasting, that it was kind of fun, the nice little difference between
> >learning Klingon and a Terran language etc. However, a word for
> >"picture" still remains in one of the top positions on my wishlist for
> >new words. I just need it quite frequently. But I'll have to deal with
> >what we have, just as everyone else.
> I'm of the opinion that what we have in this area is perfectly adequate.
> -- ghunchu'wI'

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