tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jan 05 08:57:01 1999

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Re: My old neighbor



: Voragh jang charghwI':
: >>  poH nI' jupwI' ghaH matlh Qup'e'
: >>  Young Maltz is my long-time friend.
: >
: >I don't see the grammmatical function of {poH} here. Are you
: >using a noun-noun here? poH jupwI'? That doesn't really make
: >much sense. Meanwhile, without some sort of Type 5 suffix, {poH}
: >doesn't have a reason to be here. If you are going to go this
: >far out, I think you have to go even farther.
: > qaStaHvIS poH nI' jupwI' ghaH matlh Qup'e'.
: >I don't think that our English idiom "long time friend" can be
: >directly translated, word for word into Klingon as you have
: >apparently done.
: 
: Voragh's {poH nI' jupwI'} has a parallel in {lo' law' lojmIt}
: from the Bird-of-Prey poster.  I saw his intended grammatical
: usage immediately, and I don't [he wrote, with only a *very*
: small amount of trepidation] have a problem with it.  (It's a
: close analog of {cha'vatlh ben HIq} too, but not close enough
: to make a useful argument.)
: 
: -- ghunchu'wI'

Okrand cited the phrase {poH nI'} "a long time" in KGT p.121 as a less
imaginative alternative to the well-known idiom {wa'maH cha' pemmey wa'maH
cha'
rammey je} "twelve days and twelve nights" from the Kahless myth. 
Unfortunately, I don't believe he used either of them in a sentence.

While it may or may not be idiomatic, I imagine {poH nI' jupwI'} "my friend of
a long time" would, at least, be understandable said by an alien.  The whole
point of this thread was that we *don't* know yet how Klingons refer to an
"old
friend" vs. an "elderly friend", if in fact they make this distinction.  For
all we know, Klingons may well say colloquially *{jupwI' tIQ} "my ancient
friend" for one or the other.   And before charghwI' complains again, I'm
quite
aware {tIQ} was used just once to refer to an object:

 nejwI' tIQ 'oH. 
 [It's] A probe of ancient origin.  (ST5)

Idioms are by their very nature unpredictable.  Some are actually
understandable when translated.  What's a tired cliche in one language may
sound fresh or witty to speakers of another.  But while we're waiting for
Maltz
to enlighten us, we have to make do.


-- 
Voragh                       
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons



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