tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Feb 23 08:18:49 1999

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Re: Hoch



It is refreshing to see the English side of a discussion like 
this delivered from someone not in the US. It forces me to 
rethink the concepts behind the words from a fresh perspective.

On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 07:25:06 -0800 (PST) Eduardo Fonseca 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ghItlh TPO:
> 
> 
> >>how can fuel be "whole"? what is bIQ naQ? tI naQ?
> >
> >tI naQ, sure.  The entire vegetation... the roots, the stems, the leaves...
> >DloraH
> 
> 
> 
>     In my conception, {naQ} refers especifically to just one thing
> while {Hoch} refers in general. naQ - One egg, one plant/vegetation, 
> etc. Hoch - all kinds of eggs, vegetation, etc.
> Of course it depends on the context.

I think it depends more on the words than the context.
 
>     Hoch yuQ yIQaw' - Destroy every planet (Everyone that you'll find)

Yes.

>     yuQ naQ yIQaw' - Destroy all planet (Just that planet)

Destroy the entire planet. Destroy all the rocks and trees and 
cities and oceans and all the componants that make up the planet.
 
>     QIm naQ yISop - Eat the entire egg (Not the yolk merely, but everything)

Again, eat all of the componants that make up an egg. Convention 
allows us to discard the shell and still call this an entire egg.

>     Hoch QImmey yISop - Eat all eggs (which are in your plate).

Fine.
 
>     Dujvam ghoSmeH lI' Hoch nIn (Every fuel is useful to thrust this ship)

Not quite. "All fuel is useful in order to approach this ship." 
Adding {-moH} to {ghoSmeH}, making {ghoSmoHmeH} would have 
gotten something closer to what you wanted. You might also have 
gone for {vo'meH} instead of {ghoSmoHmeH}. Meanwhile, the {Hoch} 
thing here is curious because technically, it should mean "each 
fuel" because {nIn} is singular, but then it is a noun referring 
to a substance rather than a quantity or quantifiable entity. A 
quart of fuel is fuel, and a ton of fuel is also fuel.

If we refer to two fuels, usually, we are talking about two 
different TYPES of fuel. So, given your statement, I'd expect 
this ship to run on different types of fuel, and you'd be 
bragging that your ship can run on EVERY type of fuel.

>     Dujvam ghoSmeH nIn naQ wIlo' (We use all/entire fuel to thrust this ship)
 
Here's where I'd disagree. Fuel is not a quantity. It is a kind 
of substance. You can have quantities of fuel, but if you talk 
about a fuel being "whole" or "complete" or "entire" or "full" 
and you don't talk about any unit of measure, then it sounds 
like you are talking about a substance that has all the 
componants that make up a complete fuel.

As an example, gasoline is a complete fuel for an automobile, 
but it is an incomplete fuel for a rocket, since rockets require 
their own oxygen supply, and gasoline doesn't have sufficient 
oxygen to burn in a vaccuum. Meanwhile, the Saturn V rocket had 
huge tanks of hydrogen and Oxygen which combined to make a 
complete fuel for that rocket. The solid fuel in the boosters 
for the Space Shuttle contain sufficient oxygen for burning in a 
vaccuum, so that also is a "complete" fuel. This is what I sense 
{naQ} is referring to.

If you want to say that you use all your fuel to thrust this 
ship, I'd say:

Dujvam wIvo'meH nInmaj Hoch wIlo'pu'.

"We have used ALL of our fuel in order to propel this ship." 
(This is a noun-noun construction where we are referring to "our 
fuel's all" or "all of our fuel".)

Dujvam wIvo'meH Hoch nInmaj wIlo'pu'.

"We have used each of our fuels in order to propel this ship." 
(Hoch preceeding a singular noun translates as the modifier 
"each".)

Dujvam wIvo'meH Hoch nInmeymaj wIlo'pu'.

"We have used all of our fuels in order to propel this ship." 
(Hoch preceeding a plural noun translates as the quantity "all".)

Dujvam wIvo'meH nInmaj naQ wIlo'pu'.

"We have used our complete fuel in order to propel this ship." 
(We saved the incomplete fuels for when we get back into the 
atmosphere where we won't need oxygen.)
 
> Edy

charghwI' 'utlh



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