tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Feb 22 19:04:08 1999

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Re: Hoch

ja' peHruS:
>I agree that {naQ roj} is a valid sentence.  I do not claim that {naQ} can
>only be a verb (functioning as an adjective to use the English grammar
>terminology) following a noun.

I give up.  I really do.  I thought that by giving the relevant examples
and presenting explanations I considered to be clear and easily followed
I could actually get you to see what I was talking about.  But now I see
that you think {naQ} following a noun can be something other than a verb.
That explains why you think {roj naQ} could mean "all of the peace" --
even though it fails to explain why you think {naQ} following a noun can
be anything other than a verb meaning "be complete".

>I really need to see {naQ} in canon sentences
>to gain a deeper understanding of its nuances, then.

I don't think it *has* any nuances!  It means "be full, whole, entire."
That in itself is sufficient to explain its use, even if it never shows
up in any examples penned by Okrand.  Why do you keep tripping yourself
up by trying to use it to mean "be all of"?  I'm not putting you down
because you used it incorrectly once or twice; I'm just very frustrated
because you continue to proclaim that it makes sense that way without
ever actually addressing the arguments against your position.

>Meanwhile, I feel that {QIm naQ yIlo'} means "Use the entire egg, not just
>part of it."

An egg is an interesting thing to use as an example here, and one that
might actually have been useful if you were willing to pay attention.
For anyone else who *is* paying attention, I'll say something about the
difference between {naQ} and {Hoch} following {QIm}.

QIm naQ - the complete egg.  This is the egg that is all together.  It
is not the egg that has had the yolk removed, or the one that has been
peeled and the shell discarded.  It is an egg which is not missing any
of its components.

It is *an egg*.

QIm Hoch - all the egg.  This is every last bit of the egg.  It is not
some of the egg, or even most of the egg.  It is the total quantity of
the egg that is under consideration.

It is *an amount* of egg.

>My difficulty was in the connotation brought forth in English
>about a chemical substance being incomplete somehow.  Even the Klingon word
>{HutlhHa'} seems preferable.

It doesn't seem to fit the idea from where I'm looking.  How would you
use {HutlhHa'} to describe an incomplete substance or object?

The verb {naQ} means "be complete" -- that's its definition.  So the word
{naQbe'} obviously means something like "not be complete", doesn't it?

-- ghunchu'wI'

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