Re: Placement of aspect suffixes

[WestphalWz@aol.com]

In a message dated 2/20/1999 3:56:08 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
aranders@netusa1.net writes:

<< >qepDaq tev gheSmeH gor'al, *raffle tickets* DIngevpu'
 >*Praying Hands Ranch*vaD Hoch Huchvetlh wInobpu'
 
 The context here was as the last part of a narrative of things that took
 place in the past, so I'll translate it using English past tense.  As
 literally as I can, I read this as:
 
 "In order for {gor'al} to take on the duties of a/the prize at a/the
 meeting, we had sold raffle tickets.  We had given each of those monies
 for the benefit of Praying Hands Ranch."
 
 I think the idea you wanted was more like this:
 
 "In order for {gor'al} to have taken on the duties of a/the prize at
 a/the meeting, we sold raffle tickets.  We gave all the money for the
 benefit of Praying Hands Ranch."
 
 Can you see why I've put the perfective on the clause I did here? >>

What I see is a misunderstanding of English grammar.  You call the pluperfect
the perfective.

Are you trying to put the aspect marker {-pu'} on the {-meH} clause?  Would
not {qepDaq tev gheSpu'meH gor'al, *raffle tickets* DIngevpu'} suit your idea
better?

Why do you think we "had" sold raffle tickets?  "Had" implies that some other
action also took place before the recent past tense, in English.  It's like
the second step of "completion" of the verb.  No, we merely sold raffle
tickets.   We "had" not sold raffle tickets in addition to the completion of
some other act.

I think you have gone overboard on your differentiation of Klingon's aspect
and English's tenses.  Look again at the simple sentences MO has included in
the sample sentences between the main dictionary and the addendum.  TKD 4.2.7
says: 

This suffix indicates that an action is completed.  It is often translated by
the English present perfect (have done something).

	Daleghpu'	You have seen him/her/it/them (legh see)
	vIneHpu'		I wanted it/them (neH want)

I cannot find "I had seen him/her/it/them" or "I had wanted it."  I cannot
find a reference to pluperfect, only to [present] perfect.

peHruS