tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Aug 21 05:49:48 1999
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Re: Information overload, or {Qu'vaD lI' De'vam}
- From: [email protected]
- Subject: Re: Information overload, or {Qu'vaD lI' De'vam}
- Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 08:48:55 EDT
jatlh pagh:
>Daj. I don't normally think of <De'> as something that can be plural. I
>wonder what Klingons think . . .
jatlh Angela:
>If De' is plural (which it would be in English), then how would we say it as
>singular in tlhIngan Hol? I am willing to accept De' meaning "datum" and
>De'pu' meaning "data". That doesn't solve what you do about its meaning as
>"information". But it is something to think about.
jang Voragh:
> Your point is a valid one. However for many, if not most, native English
> speakers "data" *is* singular. It may have originally been plural in
> Latin, but to all but a few pedantic speakers (of which I am one) it is
> singular now, just like "information". What's the plural of
"information"?
>
> If you feel an overwhelming need to refer to a "datum" - though in 43
> years, most of which has been spent in the military and in academia, I've
> never actually heard anyone say "datum" in their normal conversation (i.e.
> when they're not complaining about the misuse of "data" that is!) - {ngoD}
> "fact" does nicely. If that's too much information, use {ngoDHom}, a
> "bit", factoid, factlet, etc. Okrand once translated "Trekbits" (the name
> of a section or column in the official fan club magazine "Star Trek:
> Communicator") as {Hov leng ngoDHommey}.
I do use "datum" in normal conversation, as well as "data are". ('ach
bIlughba'. DIp "be singular" 'oH "data"'e' 'e' luHarlaw' Humanpu' HochHom.)
> BTW, for {ngoDHommey} I usually say "trivia" in English, yet another Latin
> plural. How many careful speakers refer to a single piece of trivia as a
> "trivium"? I know I don't.
Me neither. I didn't even know about that one until now.
>I am pretty sure <De'> is a mass noun like <bIQ>, and that Klingon does not
>really view "data" as multiple individual datums (yeah, I know, but I am
>trying to make a point). Whether mass nouns like <De'> and <bIQ> can take a
>plural suffix at all, and what that would mean, is an interesting topic for
>discussion.
>
>In English we sometimes pluralize mass nouns for poetic effect, usually in
>set phrases: "by the waters of Babylon", "the skies are not cloudy all
>day", "heavens above", "the sands of time", "three little fishies", etc.
>Whether you can do this in Klingon is unknown. It may be appreciated as an
>interesting and original literary effect; then again, it may just be
>considered an ignorant mistake, like "informations" in English.
I also think that {De'} is a mass noun. And I doubt that mass nouns can be
pluralized in Klingon (except, perhaps, in poetry, etc.). It isn't a
particularly useful construction in English. Your examples could have just as
easily been "by the water of Babylon", "the sky is not cloudy all day",
"heaven above", "the sand of time", and "three little fish". The meaning does
not change much. (Well, "heaven above" sounds a little awkward to me, but you
get the point.) The only difference is that "waters of Babylon" sounds a
little more poetic than "water of Babylon".
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
- DujHoD