tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Nov 12 09:00:14 1998
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RE: KLBC: hi
- From: "Andeen, Eric" <[email protected]>
- Subject: RE: KLBC: hi
- Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:09:48 -0700
Welcome to the list, Philip.
lab Philip J. Hachey:
> ghomvamDaq jIchu.
maj. You do need the <'> on the end of <chu'>, though.
> ben puS tlhIngan Hol mu'ghom vIje' 'ach wej Hol vIghojta'.
DaghojchoHbej. DaghojtaHvIS, not Daghojta' 'e' Datu'.
We are all still learning, and will never be finished learning.
> cha'maH cha' ben jIbogh.
maj.
> De'wI'mey QeD HaDtaHbogh ghojwI' jIH.
This sentence is fine, but it is more complex than it needs to be. English
is pretty noun-centric, so people normally say things like "I am a X
student". Klingon is much more slanted toward verbs, and consequently it
flows much better with setnences like "I study X". I would suggest:
De'wI' QeD vIHaDtaH.
> wej tlhIngan pong vIwIvta'.
DaH DawIvnISbe'. yImoDQo'.
Don't be in a hurry to choose a name. Waiting for a while to find the right
one is much more important than choosing one right away.
> pIj qeylIS ta' jIpong'egh "Internet"-Daq
> jIHDI' 'ach bonaDbe' 'e' vInub.
See below about <jIpong'egh>.
I think you meant <'e' vIQub>. This is fine, but here's something to think
about: the suffix <-law'> is meant to express uncertainty on the part of the
speaker. As such, it often means about the same thing as <... 'e' vIQub>.
> chay' nIDvam Dachov?
<nID> can only be a verb, and cannot act as a noun. I suggest substituting
<jabbI'ID>.
> whew! .. it took forever to translate just those few short sentences!
> It, therefore, does not look like I'm going to be a very active poster
> anytime soon! Anyway, aside from correcting whatever horrendous mistakes
> lie above, I have a couple more comments/suggestions:
Don't worry. You will get better with practice. And you don't have to post
anything long or elaborate - just a few sentences can often go a long way.
> 1) I've read the tlhIngan-Hol ML FAQ, and I take issue with "my name
> is...":
> Let us say my name is X.
> I like the noun-pong form: X 'oH pongwIj'e' (X, it is my name)
> But I don't like the verb-pong explanations.
> I have two possibilities for pong(v) -- but I don't know if they're
> correct:
> a) X jIpong'egh (I call myself X)
> b) X vIponglu' (something calls me X, or the equivalent, I am
> called X)
> comments/corrections/suggestions?
The information on the mailing list is a bit old, and we have had some
clarification since then. You are right about (b) and pretty close on (a).
Long explanation follows...
The person the name is applied to is a bit like an indirect object, and the
mechanism we have for this is the suffix <-vaD>. The general formula is
<(person)-vaD (name) pong (subject)>, so for "one calls me pagh" or "I am
called pagh", I would say <jIHvaD pagh ponglu'>.
With indirect objects, we also have a mechanism which on the list we often
call the "indirect object prefix trick". It has never really been explained,
but Okrand has used it enough that we understand it fairly well, although
not perfectly. Basically, when a verb has both direct and indirect objects,
and the direct object is third person, and the indirect object is not, the
<pronoun>-<vaD> for the indirect object can get folded into the verb prefix.
For example:
SoHvaD paq nob torgh -> paq Dunob torgh
maHvaD mI'QeD DaghojmoH -> mI'QeD jughojmoH
So "I am called pagh" turns into <pagh vIponglu'>, and you were correct
about that one.
*CAUTION* This bit is my own interpretation, and may not be shared by
others. With <'-egh> (and <-chuq>), there is probably a similar mechanism,
although I don't know if we have seen any examples from Okrand or not. The
way it probably works is that if the indirect object is relfexive, it can
get put on the verb with <-'egh>, with the verb prefix still pointing at the
direct object.
So "I call myself pagh" is <jIHvaD pagh vIpong>, which can turn into <pagh
vIpong'egh>. You were pretty close on this one.
> 2) How do you express events which take place over a period of
> time/space? For example:
<qaStaHvIS> is your friend. To express a duration, you can say <qaStaHvIS
(period) ...>
> a) For two years, I have suffered humiliation.
qaStaHvIS cha' DIS, vInuSlu'.
> b) I controlled the shuttle for a thousand km.
This one is a bit harder. You can't say <qaStaHvIS vaghvatlh qellI'qammey>
because a kellicam can't "happen"; You have to get a bit more creative. You
could say something like:
lupDujHom vIra'taHvIS, vaghvatlh qellI'qammey 'ab Hemaj.
Note: <'ab> is a verb meaning "have a length of", and is similar to <'aD>.
<'aD> is found in the glossary of "Klingon for the Galactic Traveller".
<'ab> is not found in either book, and is one of the (fortunately small) set
of words we have gotten from Okrand which have not been published.
> Thanks! :-)
This is a very impressive first attempt - certainly much better than mine.
Keep it up!
pagh
Beginners' Grammarian