tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 03 13:15:04 1998
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Re: KLBC: -ghach
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: -ghach
- Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:14:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
Note that some of these are not even recognizeable as nouns. As
an exercise, I'll try to use them in sentences.
On Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:25:01 -0800 (PST) Steven Boozer
<[email protected]> wrote:
> SuStel wrote:
>
> : Still, since every single other example of a {-ghach}'d verb follows
> : this pattern, and we have quite a number of {-ghach} words in observable
> : usage [...]
>
> No, we do not "have quite a number of {-ghach} words in observable usage"
> -- at
> least, not by Okrand. As has been mentioned, such nouns are indeed used
> frequently -- mainly by beginners -- and commonly appear on this mailing list,
> fan fiction, personal web pages, etc., but not in Okrand's materials.
>
> Consider: Of the thirteen {-ghach} nouns provided so far by Okrand (out of a
> total vocabulary of ca. 3000+ items), five are fairly straitforward (at least
> in English):
>
> lo'laHghach value (TKD)
Easy. Hol lo'laHghach vIvuvbej.
> lo'laHbe'ghach worthlessness (TKD)
Easy. maghwI' tuHmoH maghwI' lo'laHbe'ghach.
> naDHa'ghach discommendation (TKD)
Easy. batlh naDHa'ghach SIQ wo'rIv.
> naDqa'ghach re-commendation (TKD)
Easy. naDqa'ghachDaj baj wo'rIv.
> quvHa'ghach dishonor (TKW)
Okrand used this one.
> Five examples given in his HolQeD 3.3 article are somewhat unusual, perhaps to
> be used for a specific rhetorical or stylistic effect:
>
> tlhutlhtaHghach "ongoing drinking"
qorDu'DajvaD qay'bej tlhutlhtaHghachDaj.
> nobtaHghach "ongoing giving"
mIpwI'pu' nobtaHghach poQ qoy'wI'pu'.
> nobpu'ghach "a given (a finished case of giving)"
qoy'wI'pu' SeyHa'moH mIpwI'pu' nobpu'ghach
> quvmoHghach "process of honoring"
quvmoHghachchaj luDubta' SuvwI'pu'vam.
> belpu'ghach "having been pleased"
Well, the English translation doesn't sound like a noun at all,
but I can stretch my brain around the Klingon and come up with:
maqochDaj be'nal SuqmeH SuvwI', quvHa''eghmoH SuvwI'. batlhHa'
Qu'vam ta' 'ej belmoHpu' be', 'ach DaH maqochDaj ghomDI' SuvwI',
chImmoHchu' belpu'ghachDaj.
> while three are incorrectly formed, "marked" in both languages:
>
> *belghach "pleasureness"
> *nobghach "givation, one-time donation"
> *quvghach "honoredness"
lI'be'.
> Okrand has used a grand total of just *one* of these (quvHa'ghach) in a
> sentence in context only one time:
>
> qaStaHvIS wej puq poHmey vav puqloDpu' puqloDpu'chaj je quvHa'moH
> vav quvHa'ghach
> The dishonor of the father dishonors his sons and their sons for
> three generations. TKW
>
> The other twelve -- nine really, if you discount the three "marked"
> examples of
> how *not* to use {-ghach} -- are merely words in a vocabulary list, not "in
> observable usage".
>
> Maltz (at least) tends to avoid them, and probably so should we.
maQochbe'.
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Voragh "Grammatici certant et adhuc sub judice
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons lis est." Horace (Ars Poetica)
charghwI' 'utlh