tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Mar 05 18:28:42 1998
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: qacheghlu'
- From: Qov <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: qacheghlu'
- Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 18:26:36 -0800
At 04:29 98-03-05 -0800, beHwI"av wrote:
}Hello Qov,
}>At 09:51 98-03-03 -0800, beHwI"av wrote:
}>
}>qaqaw, beHwI"av. jIDaqtaHvIS, jIjeSchoHpa' bIjeS SoH. 'ej DaH BG jIH.
}
} If it's funny, I'm laughing. Otherwise I don't get it... (c:
I know from private e-mail that you figured this out.
}>bIDachtaHvIS nI'bej poH.
}
} HIja'. tlhIngan Hol vIyapta'.
}(Yes. I accomplished having enough of Klingon.)
Humpty Dumpty and the Red Queen may have been able to use words to mean
whatever they wished, but you know what happened to Humpty Dumpty, and the
Red Queen was the ruler of her domain. Marc Okrand is the ruler of this
domain and we must use words to mean what he says they mean.
{yap} is *be* enough. {yap} is NOT *have* enough. So you may NOT use it in
this sentence. You could probably say {mupuQmoH tlhIngan Hol} "I was fed up
of Klingon" - literally "Klingon made me fed up."
}>{''}-qoqlIjmo' ngach pabpo' 'e' vIqaw.
}
} {"} lo'taH wa' tlhIngan 'e' jIH!
}(One Klingon uses {"}, I am that Klingon!)
I can think of six distinct uses for the word "that" in English. Only one of
them is ever translated with {'e'} and then it is not always the best
translation. "That" as in "that Klingon" is never translated with {'e'}.
Your sentence is incorrect.
{{"} lo'taH wa' tlhIngan} can stand on its own as a correct sentence.
To say "I am that Klingon," use the type 4 noun suffix on tlhIngan to make
it into "that Klingon." {tlhInganvetlh jIH}.
}>BG jIHmo' HollIj Huj vIlISnIS ...
}
} bISagh! (c;
bISaghbej 'ej bISaghchugh chaq vay' Daghoj.
}>}*KlI* qachegh.
}>
}>{chegh} is "return" not "return to" so {qachegh} means "I return you."
}
} Would {qacheghchoH} be better. Or should I add the locative
}{-Daq}, because it's my destination...
I struggle to find any way that you could possibly conclude that
{qacheghchoH} could be better. What was your logic here? It may help me
help you understand. To say "I return to the KLI" (as a phsical location),
say: {*KLI*Daq jIchegh} Note the prefix is first person no object. You
aren't returning something, you are just returning. Also consider {*KLI*vaD
jIchegh}.
Only use verb prefixes to identify the real grammatical subject and object
of the verb. Don't try to use them to indicate a vague beneficiary of the
action. For example, "I feed your targ" is {targhlIj vIje'} not *{targhlIj
qaje'}, even though the owner of the targ does benefit from his pet being
fed. Understand?
}>}tlhIngan HolwIj qaghoHa'.
}
} Done.
}
}>I can't figure out where you are going with the next word. {qaghHa'} would
}>be "misinterrupt" "interrupt badly" or possibly "I now return you to your
}>scheduled programming" (i.e. end the interruption).
}
} I selected the last choice Qov; "I've uninterrupted ... " I
}thought {-Ha'} was to undo something, in other words something like
}"To undo the interruption ... "
NO. It is still wrong. You did not select the last choice. You wrote
something entirely different and uninterpretable. There is a Klingon proverb
for you. {QaghmeylIj tIchID, yIyoH}. Study it well. After two days of
looking at this sentence, and reading your muddy justification I have
another guess at what you were trying to say, perhaps it was "I now resume
my studies of Klingon." That would be:
tlhIngan Hol vIHaDqa'.
vI- I-it
HaD study
-qa' resume, do again
That is a clear and understandable statement. Read about the type 3 verb
suffix {-qa'} in section 4.2.3. Always look up suffixes in the text, not in
the tables at the back. The information in the tables at the back is not
sufficient.
}>}ghe'torDaq qa'urmangta'.
}>
}>{'urmang} is a noun, so verb prefixes and suffixes make no sense on it. Try
}>{ghe'torDaq qamaghta'} - "I have betrayed you in the underworld." That what
}>you meant?
}
}(Yes! I'm not bad, because I use my rememberer [memory/brain]) Looks
}painful doesn't it, you should try saying it. (c;
beHwI"av, it IS bad. You want to know about pain? Putting verb suffixes on a
noun is a painstikable offense. This is your one warning.
}HIja'! jIqabne', jIlo'mo' qawwI'.
Typo: {jIqabbe'}
Remember OVS word order, and use the existing vocabulary. Brain, as an
organ of thinking is {yab}. You should say: {jIqabbe' yabwIj vIlo'mo'} or
the other way around (which charghwI' rants about if I don't mention,
because he believes it's the only correct way) {yabwIj vIlo'mo' jIqabbe'}.
Note that the prefix must reflect the object of the verb. yablIj yIlo'.
yablIj Dalo'be'DI' bIqabbej.
}>}choqawbe' choqawHa' pagh.
}>
}>"You don't remember me you misremember me nothing."
}
} Hurrah, it's correct!
NO! It is as nonsensical as the English. "You don't remember me you
misremember me nothing." makes no sense in English and {choqawbe' choqawHa'
pagh} makes no sense in Klingon. beHwI"av, try to realize that Klingon has
rules of grammar. It isn't sufficient to get somewhere near the meaning
with an ungrammatical straing. You have to find words that actually express
your meaning in a grammatical way. Else you have, as you do above, garbage.
I don't even know what it is supposed to mean! Tell me in grammatical
English what you intended to say here and we'll work on getting it in Klingon.
I have been trying to demonstrate your errors to you by simply translating
them into the same errors in English, but you don't seem to be recognizing
the problems. If you have a language problem that isn't obvious from your
written English, let me know what the problem is and I will try to
accommodate you.
}>}ghojwI' qaQaQbe'!
}>
}>"Learner, I won't good you!"
}>
}>qech'e' 'oSbogh mu'tlheghvam vIyajchu'be', 'ach ghaytan teH.
}
} I think I meant; {qaQaQbe' ghojwI'!}, and if I take your
}answer and my thoughts I get very worried.
} I wanted to use {-Ha'}, basically because I like that suffix
}more than {-be'}, but I had and idea that I couldn't undo good... (c;
What is it supposed to MEAN? {qaQaQbe'} makes absolutely no sense. {QaQ}
means "be good." {qa-} means "I <verb> you". "I don't good you" is
meaningless.
You can't choose your syllables in Klingon on the basis of sound. You must
choose them by meaning. And I can't help you fix this unless you tell me
what it was supposed to mean.
}>}SKI:
}>}beHwI"av says he's back from the dead. (c;}}}
}>
}>bIHeghbe'law'pu' 'ach Heghlaw'lI' HollIj.
}
} choDuQpu'Ha'!
The suffix {-Ha'} always goes directly after the verb. Do you really mean
to say {choDuQHa'pu'} "You have mis-stabbed me"?
} Don't worry this time around I'm starting from the beginning
}and working upwards! Instead of starting at the end and getting
}nowhere.
Good. Here is the beginning I want you to start at. Read chapter 4, up to
the end of 4.1.3. Copy out the table on page 33. You'll have to memorize
it before you can speak Klingon, so start now. If you have any questions on
the verb prefixes or how to use them, post the questions. If you understand
the verb prefixes completely, then write ten sentences, simple sentences
with only one verb, and a subject and object. Each of the sentences should
correctly use a different verb prefix. Include one with {qa-}. Translate
each of your sentences into English. State whether the word "you" is
singular or plural in each case. If your sentences are not all correct,
with no subject-object reversal and no prefix errors, I warn you, you'll
have to do ten more. So if you have any question about prefixes, ask first,
and then check them carefully.
} A word of warning I get my Objects and Subjects mixed up all
}the time. I start practicing that and I'll put KLBC back into the
}subject line from now on!
That word of warning is for you. You mess up an OVS, you messed up. No
disclaimers, passes or coupons accepted.
For anyone who does not understand the concept of subject and object of a
sentence, I will go over it. If you are still confused, ask a teacher for
help or ask a librarian for a textbook that can help. It is absolutely
essential that you be able to identify subject and object in your own
language if you want to speak Klingon.
In brief, the subject of a sentence is the one that performs the action or
experiences the state of the main verb. The object is the one that has the
action done to it. There has to be a subject in a sentence. An object is
optional.
I see you. subj: I, obj: you
He takes the cat. subj: he, obj: cat
We are bored. subj: we, obj: none
I like your book. subj: I, obj: your book
The people upstairs scared us. subj: the people upstairs, obj: us
Note that in most English sentences and in all these examples the subject
comes before the verb and the object comes after it.
Qov [email protected]
Beginners' Grammarian