tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 15 11:08:14 1998
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Re: SuvwI'bom
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: SuvwI'bom
- Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:08:12 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
On Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Marc Ruehlaender
<[email protected]> wrote:
> jIja':
> > > {HoD jIH} if it answers "Who are you?" and
> > >
> > > {jIH ghaH HoD'e'} if it answers "Who is the captain?"
> > > ("As for the captain, that would be me...")
> >
> jang charghwI':
> > Since the pronoun "I" is not third person, I could only
> > translate this as:
> > "The captain is a viewing screen."
> >
> arrgl... my choice of using first person clouded more than it helped...
>
> Try {HoD ghaH mara'e'} answering "Who is Mara?" and
> {mara ghaH HoD'e'} answering "Who is the captain?"
This is backwards to what I'd expect. The exchange as I'd expect
it would be:
"Who is Mara?" {mara ghaH 'Iv'e'?} {mara ghaH HoD'e'}.
"Who is the captain?" {HoD ghaH 'Iv'e'?} {HoD ghaH mara'e'.}
Remember that {'Iv} is supposed to be used in place of the noun
which would answer the question. It's location in the sentence
is determined by the position the answer of the question, if the
question were restated as a statement with the person's name
replacing the word {-'Iv}.
> > > i.e., I choose the known thing as the subject and the unknown
> > > as the object. (Of course that's why {SoH 'Iv} confuses me :-)
Well, the unknown thing can be either the subject or the object.
"Whom did you hit?"
"Who hit you?"
'Iv DaqIp?
DuqIp 'Iv?
The verb "to be" is weirder, but that is true in Klingon whether
we are talking about sentences or questions.
Meanwhile, {'Iv} apparently can act as a verb just like pronouns
can act as verbs, so "Who is the captain?" can apparently be
asked two different ways:
HoD ghaH 'Iv'e'?
HoD 'Iv?
As to which is more proper, consider that {'Iv} might be
replaced by a proper noun or by a pronoun. For example, the
first might be answered with identical grammer as:
HoD ghaH Qanqor'e'.
The second might be answered with identical grammar with:
HoD ghaH.
My guess is that which question grammar you'd use as you ask
"Who is the captain?" would likely be determined by whether you
expected the answer to be someone's name, or just pointing along
with use of the pronoun. It would not be wrong to answer one
question with the other kind of answer (if Krankor were not in
the room, for instance, and someone asked you {HoD 'Iv}, there
is no Krankor there for you to point to and answer {HoD ghaH}.
That leaves you forced to say {HoD ghaH Qanqor'e'} even though
the grammar of your answer does not match that of the question.
> > Well, {SoH 'Iv} makes sense to me, while {'Iv SoH} looks weird,
> > though apparently both are correct. As I understand it, when you
> > just have one noun and one pronoun, generally speaking, the
> > pronoun acts as the verb "to be" and also acts as the subject.
> > "We are Klingons" as {maH} as the subject. "Who are you?" has
> > {'Iv} as the subject. Apparently, it can act as the verb "to be"
> > also. So, {'Iv SoH} means, "You are who?"
> >
> in English "Who are you?" obviously "you" is the subject unless either
>
> a) who? is second person (and thus different from the who?
> in "Who is he?" which must be third person, no?)
> b) the verb agrees with something other than the subject
Interesting. I forgot the way that English reverses word order
when making questions. Then again, "to be" is weird in many ways.
> (also consider "Where are you?"; surely where? is not the subject)
Well, {nuqDaq} is a locative, which is a whole different
matter...
> > Arrange to taste.
> >
> usually there's no difference anyway... just in answering questions.
Okay, before the waves of arguments come in, I think I've been
entirely wrong here. I forgot the way that English reverses
questions.
Meanwhile, "My name is Will" has "My name" as the subject, and
so, I would expect: {charghwI' 'oH pongwIj'e'} to properly
represtent the thought.
> Marc Ruehlaender
> aka HomDoq
> [email protected]
>
charghwI'