tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jun 01 19:50:07 1998
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Re: KLBC: Q on {-meH} (was: long weekend with MO)
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC: Q on {-meH} (was: long weekend with MO)
- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:51:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
- Priority: NORMAL
On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Marc Ruehlaender
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ter'eS, Voragh and charghwI' discuss the following sentences
> (with respect of indefinite subject "it")
>
> yaS SuvmeH Qatlh (Qu').
> It (The task) is difficult to fight the officer.
Thinking more on this, I think the clearest expression would be
{Qatlh yaS Suvlu'meH Qu'.} It is clearest because the thing
which is difficult is obviously a task. Which task? The task
which serves the purpose that the officer is hit. Since {-meH}
clauses can preceed and modify nouns, using a {-meH} clause to
modify {Qu'} perfectly expresses this idea. The {-lu'} makes it
clear that {Qu'} is not the subject of {SuvmeH}.
My goal is the clearest expression of a thought in Klingon. I'm
less interested in making the task of translating English into
Klingon easy than I am in making the finished Klingon statement
clearly express the idea.
> qIpmeH Qatlh'a' nejwI'?
> Is the probe difficult to hit?
Again, I'd argue that a clearer expression would be {Qatlh'a'
nejwI' qIplu'meH Qu'?} though I do see Okrand's choice of
wording as quite valid. It is, in my mind, a compression of a
much longer sentence:
vay' qIplu' net qelDI', Qatlh'a' nejwI'? "When one considers
something being hit, is the probe difficult?"
Perhaps even:
qIpchu'ghach qellu'DI', Qatlh'a' nejwI'?
> tlhIngan Hol jatlhmeH ngeD.
> It is easy to speak Klingon.
I don't think this is actually a canon sentence, and I do
see it as fundamentally different from the preceeding
example. Again, a clearer way of saying this is {ngeD tlhIngan
Hol jatlhlu'meH Qu'.} "The task of speaking Klingon is easy."
And if we want to cast it in a manner more similar to the canon
example above, it would be: {jatlhmeH ngeD tlhIngan Hol.} There
is no indefinite "it" implied here.
> Now, I've seen this before, and I never quite understood, how
> the being difficult/easy/whatever is done for a purpose.
Well, I'm not sure that {-meH} is perfectly described as
"purpose". The term does point towards the function of {-meH},
but {-meH} does extend a bit beyond the simple plug-in
replacement with "for the purpose of". It often acts as an
infinitive or gerund, pointing to a particular aspect of an
action or a noun.
> (*It is difficult in order to fight the officer.
Replace with an infinitive, and you get, "To fight the officer
is difficult." Use the gerund and you get, "Fighting the officer
is difficult."
> *It is difficult in order to hit.
To hit is difficult. Hitting is difficult.
> *It is easy in order to speak Klingon.)
To speak Klingon is easy. Speaking Klingon is easy.
> This is quite obviously not what is meant here.
> Can I please have a summary of how the meaning of {-meH}
> is extended by Okrandian usage?
Does this help?
> Marc Ruehlaender
> aka HomDoq
> [email protected]
>
charghwI'