tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Aug 12 23:50:55 1998
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Re: KLBC - jIpaw. jIlegh. jIchargh.
- From: Robyn Stewart <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: KLBC - jIpaw. jIlegh. jIchargh.
- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
---Burt Clawson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> KLBC - jIpaw. jIlegh. jIchargh.
>
>
> vIjatlh 'e' vIneH neH. >:-)
/neH/ doesn't take /'e'/ in order to make the previous sentence its
object.
> ja' Qov:
>
> > ---Burt Clawson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > KLBC - QInwIj Qav Soppu' De'wI' jay'!
> >
> > pIj Daje'nIS.
>
> qatlh? tlho' noblu'lI'meH jaj 'oH DaHjaj'e'? Har'a' De'wI'?
>
> > > bImoHchu' SoH. vaj verengan ngaghta'bogh SoS'e' vay' Darur.
> > > "You are perfectly ugly. Thus, you resemble someone whose
mother has
> > > mated with a Ferengi."
> >
> > Hmm. A noun-noun with a relative clause acting as N1 doesn't seem
> > unreasonable, but this one doesn't work for me. Here's why:
> > What does /SoS vay' Darur/ mean? "You resemble a mother's
> > something/one." "You resemble the something/someone of a mother."
> > It's not completely certain you are referring to a child. You've
lost
> > the possessive directed towards "mother" in the translation. We
don't
> > know a Klingon relative clause marker that forms a possessive the
was
> > "whose" does. (*) If the bare noun-noun isn't readily
understandable,
> > good luck when the noun is in a relative clause! If you change
/vay'/
> > to /puq/, /puqloD/ or /puqbe'/, then I can read the sentence.
> >
> > Dalaj'a'?
>
> HISlaH./verengan ngaghta'bogh SoS/ was supposed to be the clause
modifying
> /vay' Darur/. That's why I stuck that nasty /'e'/ on the end of
/SoS/. I
> sweated over that sentence for nearly 20 minutes, then just went
ahead and
> sent it. I seem to be missing some ultra-important thing here
regarding
> relative clauses, and purpose clauses. Any suggestions?
Nope nope. You didn't miss it. I just didn't completely explain my
analysis technique. /verengan ngaghta'bogh SoS'e'/ properly modified
/vay'/ and the /-'e'/ suffix was the right thing to add to make that
clear. Any relative clause can be thought of as its head noun, plus a
modifer. "The man who stole my cargo ate the pie" is an extended form
of "the man ate the pie." /chab Sop tepwIj nIHbogh loD'e'/ is an
extended form of /chab Sop loD/. Because I didn't completely
understand your sentence, I reduced the RC to its head noun to try to
understand it, giving /SoS vay' Darur/. That's how I saw that it
reduced to "A mother's something/someone" Change /vay'/ to /puq/ and
you have "the child of a mother". DaH choyaj'a'?
The trick with purpose clauses, and I didn't figure this out until
AFTER I was BG, so now you're way ahead of me, is that /<verb>meH/ can
modify a verb OR a noun. /ghojmeH taj vIghaj/ "I have a training
knife" ("knife for the purpose of learning"). /jIghojmeH Qov vIboj/
"I nag Qov in order to learn" (jIghojmeH - "in order that I learn").
There are a few things all of us don't know about purpose clauses, but
if you can form and understand those two kinds, you're laughing. Oh
and the purpose clause must go before the noun or clause it modifies.
> chu' mu'tlheghmeyvam:
>
> tera'Daq SupawDI' SIbI' tlhIngan rIvSo' yIghoS.
> "When you reach Earth, immediately go to the Klingon embassy."
>
> peQ chem qoDDaq Hap rugh je DaDuDlaH 'ach peQ chem HurDaq bIH
DaDuDchugh
> ghaytan bIjor'eghmoH.
> "You can mix matter and antimatter inside a magnetic field, but if
you mic
> them outside a magnetic field, you are likely to blow yourself up."
qar.
> bIrIghmo' ghaHlaH pe''eghwI'ra''e'.
> "Because he is lame he can be your score keeper."
This sentence has no right to live. Would you prefer that I torture
it painfully, or will you give it a quick death?
> pejatQo' 'ej puq Hol yIlo'Qo'.
> "Don't mumble and don't use baby talk."
>
> jIyuDbe'. chutmeywIj'e' vIpab neH!
> "I'm not dishonost. I merely follow mu own rules!"
>
> HItapQo'!
> "Don't squish me!"
maj.
==
Qov - Beginners' Grammarian
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