tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Sep 02 19:55:31 1997

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Re: Hoghvam vIttlhegh



>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
>From: [email protected]
>
>ghItlh Qermaq:
>
>>ghItlh bI'reng:
> 
>>>jevpu'DI', mIghwI'pu' chaHHa'lu'pu', 'ach reH QamtaH quvlaHwI'pu'
> 
>>"When it has stormed, the ones who are evil have not been, but the ones who
>>can be honored are standing."
> 
>>mu' DaneHbogh 'oH'a' *chaH*'e'?
> 
>>nuqjatlh?
>
>I trying to say "When the storm has passed, the evil ones are undone, but the
>honorable ones are always standing." I was a little hesitant on using
>-chaHHa'lu'- but I think it works with one change: -chaHHa'moHlu'
>
>My reasoning:
>*chaH: they are* becomes *chaHHa': they are no more.* However, this has the
>idea that they undid their existence themselves, so I added *-lu'.* Of course
>this makes no sense without the *-moH* which I accidently overlooked. But now
>that I've written this, perhaps *lutaHHa'lu': they are discontiuned* would
>have been a better choice. It makes more sense and avoids the confusion of my
>first choice.
>
>I still believe *chaHHa'moHlu'* works but is a bit strange. 
>
>vuDmeyraj vIneH.

Ugh, I don't think it works in the tiniest bit.  (Well, you asked).  {chaH}
is a pronoun, remember?  Yes, it can be used as a copula, but that's a
copula, not existence.  We've gone through this on the list a few times
already: this "to be" is not the "to be" of "God is" or "I am that I am."
It's not for deep discussion of existence (usually {tu'lu'} is right for
that).  "They are no more" is an English idiom based on the existence
meaning of "to be".  {chaHbe'} to me means something like "They are not
[them]", i.e. expecting something else whose equality with "them" is
negated ({qama'pu' chaHbe' puqpu''e'}, {puqpu' chaH.  qama'pu' chaHbe'},
{qama'pu' chaH puqpu''e', qar'a'?  ghobe', chaHbe'}).  My brain rebels
against trying to make sense even of {?chaHHa'}, let alone {*chaHHa'moHlu'}
(I also very rarely like seeing -moH and -lu' together on a word anyway).

~mark


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