tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 26 13:42:54 1997
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Re: [proposal] translation for directions.
- From: "Robyn Stewart" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: [proposal] translation for directions.
- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:42:54 PST
- Organization: NLK Consultants, Inc.
- Priority: normal
Philippe Lavoie wrote:
> Hi,
Hi Philippe, I'm known here as Qov and I'm the Beginners' Grammarian,
here to help newcomers turn enthusiasm and a shiny new Klingon
Dictionary into good tlhIngan Hol, a very battered copy
of TKD, and even more enthusiasm.
I understand that right now you are trying to form some expressions
for a D&D game and that's fine. You'll have an easier time learning
Klingon though, if you look at what Klingon *has* and work with that,
rather than trying to translate concepts it doesn't have.
> I just joined the e-mail list last night, so I don't know
> what is the policy regarding new words. But here goes
The policy regarding new words is that Marc Okrand devises them.
Period. We acknowledge that there are some concepts Klingons
reasonably should have words for but that we don't know the words
for. We work around it, waiting for the day when Marc Okrand tells
us what they are. We use instead expressions that are understandable
to others as meaning what we intend. The KLI is not the only group
of Terran Klingon speakers, and there are probably many solo
students. It would be divisive to the language and its students for
anyone other than the creator of the language to introduce new words.
> I need to translate north, south, east and west.
We don't even know that Klingons divide their compass into four, but
for the purpose of your campaign, it's reasonable to speculate about
some names for directions. Why don't you choose a number other than
four to make it more alien-sounding?
> I came up with the followings
We sometimes form compound nouns in Klingon, made out of two single
nouns, if the result is understandable. Usually we just leave the
nouns separate. Compare "shoe leather" and "shoeleather" or "lunch
box" and "lunchbox" in English.
We are not free to make compounds of a noun and a verb, however.
Some native Klingon words appear to be made that way, but we don't
know that.
> north: jenHov (high star)
To use a verb denoting a state or quality to describe a
noun, place it after the noun.
{Hov jen} "high star"
> south: jenHovQIb (high star shadow)
The noun+stative verb can act as a noun in a noun-noun construction,
so:
{Hov jen QIb} "shadow of the high star" "high star's shadow"
> east: vemHov (waking star)
{vem} is not a stative noun, but an action, so to use it to describe
a noun you need a relative clause, formed with {-bogh}.
{vembogh Hov} "the star that wakes"
> west: QongHov (sleeping star)
{Qongbogh Hov} "the star that sleeps"
> I use star because I couldn't find a translation for
> sun. Maybe I should use Hovmar (our star) instead of just Hov.
That would be {Hovmaj} -- good use of the possessive suffix--and that
I would understand as the sun.
> Would these be acceptable translations ? Of
> course I realize that they only make sense in a planer system like
> ours but N, S, E and W also have the same limitations.
Acceptable to whom? You now have four grammatically correct
expressions for types of stars. I personally would not be able to
match them with the points of the compass, or even realize that they
were directions. They look to me like types of star. I don't think
they would make any sense as directions to Klingons. For the purpose
of your game there is no reason you can't use them. Just don't give
anyone the idea that they are the proper Klingon expressions, or that
they have been 'approved' by the KLI or anyone else.
Neither have these below; I just made them up. Can you figure them
out? If so, maybe a Klingon familiar with our planet could, too.
jajlo' lurgh
ram choS lurgh
pem bIr Hov lurgh
peQ chem lurgh
I hope this message doesn't come across as especially negative. I
feel like I keep saying "No, you can't do that." If you need any
more information on the points of grammar that caused me to rearrange
your suggestions, or that would help you understand how my
suggestions work, please follow up and ask more questions.
- Qov