tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 26 09:19:12 1997
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Re: A *with* suffix?
qelayn wrote:
|How would you express an idea of being with someone/something while
|doing something, eg.
| I went to the bar with Torg
|I suppose you could get around it by using
| tachDaq wIghoSpu' jIH torgh je - Torg and I went to the bar
What's wrong with "Torg and I went to the bar"? Other than style, I don't
see any difference between the two. They both provide the same information.
Well, I suppose Torg is kind of an afterthought in the "with" variant.
|however is there a construction using *tlhej* - accompany
Okrand addressed this in his article "Okrand's Notes" in HolQeD 2.4 (Dec.
1993). I'll quote the relevant part in its entirety:
*with* -- In the sense of "accompanied by," "with" is usually translated by
a phrase emplying the verb {tlhej}, "accompany." (There's a typo in the
English-Klingon section of TKD: {tlhej} is erroneously tagged as a noun.)
Thus, "I drink tea with Torg and Maltz" would be:
Dargh vItlhutlhDI' mutlhej torgh matlh je.
(literally, "when I drink tea, Torg and Maltz accompany me.") or
Dargh vItlhutlh. mutlhej torgh matlh je.
("I drink tea. Torg and Maltz accompany me.") or
Dargh vItlhutlh 'ej mutlhej torgh matlh je.
("I drink tea, and Torg and Maltz accompany me.")
Using Okrand's example as a model you could say:
tachDaq jIghoSDI' mutlhej torgh.
("When I went to the bar, Torg accompanied me.")
tachDaq jIghoS. mutlhej torgh.
("I went to the bar. Torg accompanied me.")
tachDaq jIghoS 'ej mutlhej torgh.
("I went to the bar and Torg accompanied me.")
|Or I could go behind Mr. Okrand's back and create a new (perhaps slang)
|type 5 noun suffix expressing the idea of with. eg.
| torgh*with* tachDaq vIghoSpu'
Don't do that! Not only is it completely unnecessary, no one else would
understand you -- unless you just want to talk to yourself. Part of the fun
of playing with tlhIngan Hol is to see just what you can do *within* the
existing rules and vocabulary. Sometimes people push the envelope by trying
something novel, but we don't make up new rules whenever we discover a
"weakness" in the language.
Often with a bit more thought, the weakness turns out to be nonexistant, as
we've seen. The lack of a separate Klingon word or suffix for "with" is
merely an English translation problem, not a defect of Klingon. (The
instrumental sense of "with" has been addressed on this listserv by
Beginning Grammarians several times and can be found in the archives.)
Voragh