tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 17 02:41:29 1997
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Re: impersonal verbs (was: Re: ghunlu'wI')
- From: "David Trimboli" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: impersonal verbs (was: Re: ghunlu'wI')
- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 05:43:01 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony.Appleyard <[email protected]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: impersonal verbs (was: Re: ghunlu'wI')
> "David Trimboli" <[email protected]> replied:-
>> The name {qoreQ} here is being used as direct address. ...
>> Your sentences are examples merely of direct address.
>> qoreQ Daleghlu'. Korex, someone sees you.
>> Daleghlu' qoreQ. Someone sees you, Korex.
>
> But the agreement rules of the all-3rd-person "they <verb> him" prefix
{lu-}
>also treats object as subject in the {-lu'} form:
> qoreQ lulegh beqpu' = the crewmen see Korax
> beqpu' luleghlu' = one sees the crewmen, the crewmen are seen
> and there is no risk of an intruding vocative clouding the picture here.
What are you talking about? When you use {-lu'} the noun in the object
position doesn't suddenly become the subject. {-lu'} means THERE IS NO
SUBJECT, nothing more, nothing less. In your two sentences, different nouns
are being seen. The object of the first sentence is {qoreQ}. The object of
the second sentence is {beqpu'}.
And what has this to do with your use of direct address? In your sentence
{qoreQ Daleghlu'}, the object is the pronoun {SoH}, which is left out,
because the prefix (along with the suffix {-lu'} tells us what the object
must be. {qoreQ} is a name. It acts like a third-person singular noun. It
has nothing to do with {SoH}. The ONLY possible reading of this sentence is
"Korex, someone sees you," with "Korex" being used in direct address.
In your sentence {Daleghlu' qoreQ}, we explicitly state that there is no
subject at all. That's what {-lu'} does. Therefore, {qoreQ} CANNOT be the
subject. Again, the only possibility is that it is being used in direct
address.
I think you're being confused by the funny way the prefix acts. The prefix
set is weird because there is no subject. Normally, every prefix tells you
something about the subject, but with {-lu'} there is nothing to tell you!
There is no "no subject" prefix. So it's not too surprising that Klingon
alters the use of some of the prefixes in order to tell you something about
the object only.
SuStel
Stardate 97879.4