tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 12 13:18:13 1997

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Re: indirect questions (was: Re: plans)

First of all, let us please not call this an "indirect
question". There is no such beast in Klingon grammar. I dare
you find anything with that name in TKD.

According to Anthony.Appleyard:
> 
> > ... Well, as I noted earlier, I suspect that certain verbs might work better
> > than {Sov}. For example, I think it works with {jang}, as in {yuch Soppu'
> > 'Iv 'e' vIjanglaHbe'.} ...
> 
>     Would this work?:-
>   I know who ate the chocolate: yuch Soppu'bogh ghaH'e' vIngu'laH

Use of perfective for past tense is a little weak, but
basically this works. I'd either change the English to "has
eaten" or drop the {-pu'} from {Soppu'bogh}.

>   I know the child who ate the chocolate: yuch Soppu'bogh puq'e' vIngu'laH

Same basic evaluation.

>   I asked Worf who ate the chocolate:
>       yuch Soppu'bogh ghaH'e' ngu' 'e' wo'rIv vItlhob
 
I have several problems with this one. The biggest one is that
{tlhob} has two direct objects as stated. Both {'e'} and
{wo'rIv} are set up to be third person singular objects of
{tlhob}.

There's also the use of {-pu'} for simple past tense, and the
implied pronoun for {ngu'} when it would be much better to have
an explicit {wo'rIv} as subject, so we know who you are talking
about.

In English, you might say, "I asked Worf that he identify" and
if you translate that mechanically, the name "Worf" is
expressed as object of "asked" and the pronoun "he" is used for
the subject of "identify", even though the both refer to the
same person. Since Klingon word order is roughly reversed from
English, this gives you an implied "he" before the stated
"Worf", so as you listen to the sentence, you have no clue who
"he" is.

It is better to express an explicit "Worf" as subject of
"identify" when you translate this, since it is the first
placeholder for this person. We know that in Klingon, it would
not be uncommon to not use ANY pronouns and just repeat the
name "Worf" in every instance that there is a reference to him,
but if you are going to drop out any of these explicit "Worf"s,
it is not good to do so to the first one.

Then I think that {ra'} might be a better replacement for
{tlhob}, but suddenly, I then realize that this really is a
quotation and then the use of {'e'} is simply wrong. Quotations
in Klingon are always direct quotations and do not use {'e'}.

So, we get:

wo'rIv vIra' yuch Sopbogh nuv'e' yIngu'.

It follows the rules and is easy to understand.

charghwI'

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